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Author Topic: Tone Down AI's "Form Line" Behavior  (Read 935 times)

Arcagnello

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Re: Tone Down AI's "Form Line" Behavior
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2020, 12:52:55 AM »

Oh seriously it already does that? Ok well then nvm hmm.

Also for clarification the personality was Steady in most cases. There *might* have been a case with Aggressive but iirc I think that one was a speed issue and it happened quite a long time ago.

Well, if I see it again and happen to be recording it I'll post it.

You: Was AI always this bad?

Me: Always has been. *Charges gauss Cannon*


Jokes aside, I'm under the opinion that Steady AI is always inferior to Aggressive on most combat ships, and the ones built for long-range kiting (i.e. Conquest and a few others) use Timid instead since it's the only personality that stops moving towards the enemy the moment all of its offensive weapons can open up. Aggressive can get the AI into some trouble if it's piloting a ship that's not mobile enough toget out of the mess it got itself into but the increased aggressiveness allowing it to be a lot more useful on the battlefield tops the risks as far as I'm concerned.

Then there's also the fact that, as you pointed out before, Aggressive/Reckless AI follow Eliminate orders much more to the letter than Steady, wich alone would warrant their use if you aggressively micromanage fights.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 04:14:51 AM by Arcagnello »
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Scorpixel

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Re: Tone Down AI's "Form Line" Behavior
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2020, 08:36:29 PM »

Can confirm that agressive is absolutely superior on the being useful scale, direct Eliminate order and/or full assault basically turns it into reckless, and you'll quickly learn not to forget those as the ordered ship will disregard pretty much anything to reach it's target (except in 1v1 sim for some reason), while defence waypoints somewhat keep them on a leash (unless if it's to chase a frigate and get sandwiched by the enemy in front of their spawn).

Is timid really effective in any situation? Haven't tried on an artillery ship like conquest, but the last time a timid officier was on a carrier all he did was stay at max fighter range meaning they took forever to engage/regroup and of course disengaging due to being out of range every time a target was actually dealt with by the frontline.

Current behaviour ranking would be:
Agressive>steady>airlock>cautious/reckless>middleofanhyperspacestormontheedgeofthesector>timid
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 08:40:39 PM by Scorpixel »
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TaLaR

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Re: Tone Down AI's "Form Line" Behavior
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2020, 08:41:36 PM »

Reckless can be used early on a Centurion. Reckless will always go past breaking point on it's flux, but due to DF that doesn't kill an officer-ed Centurion any time soon. Not until you are fighting capitals or stations.

Timid tends to hover too far even for carriers, agree on that.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2020, 08:44:20 PM by TaLaR »
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Arcagnello

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Re: Tone Down AI's "Form Line" Behavior
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2020, 03:28:06 AM »

I meant cautious, sorry (provided it is between steady and timid). I use it on my AI Conquest wich uses tac lasers+2xgauss+Ion Beam  and it properly outranges all 40FP capitals resulting in it winning against all of them.

Steady on the other hand, using the identical setup, gets in too close and takes unnecessary damage.

Cautious personality is useful (if not vital)  on fragile, long range kiters and that's it. Even a full laser Aurora is better off with an aggressive personality since it's got an amazing shield and ample flux capacity to back up the constant pressure of a truckload of tac lasers + 2 grav beams + 1 Ion beam.

There aren't many vanilla ships that benefit from cautious besides the Conquest and maybe a beam Sunder (with Advanced optics added to ITU) really, unless you're planning on giving a carrier ITU + HVDs  or ITU +Advanced Optics + lasers + Squalls in the case of the Astral
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 03:35:26 AM by Arcagnello »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Tone Down AI's "Form Line" Behavior
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2020, 10:47:05 AM »

I use cautious officers on herons and drovers because I want them to stay away from anything that could kill them. Their fighters are more than enough value.
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Arcagnello

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Re: Tone Down AI's "Form Line" Behavior
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2020, 12:07:14 PM »

I use cautious officers on herons and drovers because I want them to stay away from anything that could kill them. Their fighters are more than enough value.

I have not noticed any behavioural differences between Steady-Cautious-Timid AIs when installed on a carrier set up the usual way (as in no offensive weapons that would compel the AI to move into weapon range of said weapons). Aggressive/Reckless will on the other hand drive the carrier into range where it can fire PD weapons offensively, wich is bad in almost all scenarios.

What I know for a fact tough is that if a carrier has any offensive weapon (I thinking about Swarmers/Annihalator cannon) and is not particularly good at close quarters combat (the only vanilla carrier that is actually good at that being the dreaded Overridden Mora) , then cautious is the best option, as steady will get in closer than the ship's (lowest range offensive) weapon's range to the the enemy and timid will not engage it at all and will only ever use said weapons if the enemy is actively seeking to get in close.

Aggressive can surely work on dedicated combat carriers but I almost never pick that. A capital battlecarrier is basically a cruiser carrying a cruiser/destroyer sized carrier on its back and they're obviously not going to be the most suitable ship to be vulnerable to overextending due to their personality. And before you ask, no; Odissey to me is not a battlecarrier, it's a battlecruiser that gets a lot of quirks unique to it, including two fighter wings (therefore making it the strongest 40FP ship in vanilla IMO)

P.S: Timid/Cautious/Steady personalities just could vary in their "social distancing" from the enemy if they're PD focused but I have not thoroughly tested that theory yet.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 12:32:26 PM by Arcagnello »
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Thaago

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Re: Tone Down AI's "Form Line" Behavior
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2020, 12:19:14 PM »

I like having a Reckless officer or two to help the AI break stalemates. Often if one ship yolo's in to the enemy lines and drives up their flux, other ships will follow. Just expect those officers to lose ships every once in a while, until they are on capitals.
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