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Starsector 0.95.1a is out! (12/10/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95.1a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.51rc2 (2022/01/18)  (Read 140301 times)

Wyvern

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #105 on: May 03, 2021, 08:10:01 AM »

Sadly I can't reproduce it with just Seeker enabled so it is either not the culprit, or the issue is caused by a combination of mods. Actually, of all my mods Seeker is one of the least susceptible to cause such issue since it barely does anything custom on the campaign layer. Scy did had a few memory leaks but those should be solved now with the latest update.
Just re-tested this, again, with: Starsector 0.95a-RC15, Seeker 0.42, LazyLib 2.6, MagicLib 0.34, and no other mods enabled. Reproduces perfectly: start a new game, skip the tutorial, save, load the game you just saved, wait about an in-game week.

(Edit: I do appreciate the SCY memory leak fixes, though; those were much more problematic than one that only happens on new game.)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 08:13:12 AM by Wyvern »
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Bub

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #106 on: May 03, 2021, 08:56:18 AM »

They are in general a bit too good
??? Hand twitches toward the nerf bat.


Ohgodnonotthenerfbat
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Send an AI inspection again hegies, and I swear to ludd I will make the 2nd AI war look like a slapfight

ThatBigBirb

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #107 on: May 04, 2021, 09:09:53 AM »

Quote
- 557-class: (I swear I will make that ship fun to fly somehow)

I love the 557. I love the way it looks. I love the way it's supposed to dive in, unload its clip make HUGE holes in hull and armor and then slip away

Buuuuuut

The AI, no matter what personality type I put into it is always squirreling around at the edge of engagement and often fleeing from tiny frigates that pose absolutely no threat and requiring a command point to get them to do that whole diving in, murdering, and turning around to hunt the next target. Even with a wolfpack, the AI will perform the whole twiddling around at the edge of engagement, burning through their peak timer.

Any tips?
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Amazigh

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #108 on: May 10, 2021, 12:11:56 AM »

So been playing a game with seeker and i'm enjoying the mod in general. But:

Accelerated Missiles: If fired more than 45 degrees off of target they refuse to track targets. this feels like a bug as there is no note that they will behave like this, and they clearly have sufficient tracking capability when just launched and still at low speed to function if aimed off-bore.

Erasmus Bombers: While the player can know that they are meant to be used as support fighters, and maybe sent in to strike with their rockets against a weak/overloaded target. The AI just sees that they are classed as bombers, and recklessly sends them straight in to strike their target and more often than not to their death.
The main cause of this suicidal behavior appears to be their frag rockets which have quite a lot of ammo, Currently it takes 10.5 seconds for them to expend all rocket ammo from firing the first shot, assuming constant fire, which is an extremely long engagement time for a bomber. (and also means they aren't going back to reload on their missiles for all this time)
Two proposed ideas for a rework:
  • Cut frag rocket ammo significantly, say to 5 or so, this would mean they'd likely use their entire reserve in their first attack run, rather than having to do 2-3+ "runs" over the target to expend all ammo.
  • Either remove the frag rockets or boost their range, while changing the craft to a support fighter. (this would make them into something that the AI can actually understand how to use.)
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Madskills

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #109 on: May 10, 2021, 06:39:37 AM »

What a great mod, love it! I wish starsector had more weird redacted mods adding special and unique tech like this one. An encounter with a gigantic [REDACTED] ship was very memorable, I wish it dropped more weird stuff. I love the random challenges this mod scatters around the world map, you just occasionally find those weird fleets of strange ships that are fun to learn about and fight. Also recovering strange and bizarre technology feels amazing.
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Madskills

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #110 on: May 11, 2021, 07:21:03 PM »

Found my first sunlight hunter (dawn-class). Wow, what a great and bizarre ship, I think the game needs more exotic stuff like that.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 12:57:59 AM by Madskills »
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Thorveim

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #111 on: May 14, 2021, 05:48:34 PM »

The one sad thing I find about this mod, is that the boss battles feel really unrewarding if you don't use the Automated ships skill. If you don't and took the 3 integrated hullmod ships, you don't get to even salvage the boss ship and are locked in your choice on top, and the guns you will loot will very likely murder the capabilities of your ships... and out of all the bosses I found so far, not a single one of them was not an automated ship And evew with the automated ship skills.. not sure you'd even be able to fly one at full efficiency because of how the automated ships skill affects CR.

overall, beyond even winning the fight, which is hellish enough... I feel like you gain overall too little if you didn't take that one end of tree skill. And considering on the other hand that the bosses will chew through capitals like candy..
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #112 on: May 14, 2021, 11:19:04 PM »

The AI, no matter what personality type I put into it is always squirreling around at the edge of engagement and often fleeing from tiny frigates that pose absolutely no threat and requiring a command point to get them to do that whole diving in, murdering, and turning around to hunt the next target. Even with a wolfpack, the AI will perform the whole twiddling around at the edge of engagement, burning through their peak timer.
I'll see if I can tweak the ship system to make the AI more aggressive with it.

Accelerated Missiles: If fired more than 45 degrees off of target they refuse to track targets. this feels like a bug as there is no note that they will behave like this, and they clearly have sufficient tracking capability when just launched and still at low speed to function if aimed off-bore.

Erasmus Bombers: While the player can know that they are meant to be used as support fighters, and maybe sent in to strike with their rockets against a weak/overloaded target. The AI just sees that they are classed as bombers, and recklessly sends them straight in to strike their target and more often than not to their death.
The main cause of this suicidal behavior appears to be their frag rockets which have quite a lot of ammo, Currently it takes 10.5 seconds for them to expend all rocket ammo from firing the first shot, assuming constant fire, which is an extremely long engagement time for a bomber. (and also means they aren't going back to reload on their missiles for all this time)
Two proposed ideas for a rework:
  • Cut frag rocket ammo significantly, say to 5 or so, this would mean they'd likely use their entire reserve in their first attack run, rather than having to do 2-3+ "runs" over the target to expend all ammo.
  • Either remove the frag rockets or boost their range, while changing the craft to a support fighter. (this would make them into something that the AI can actually understand how to use.)
Those are old weapons that need some deep rework imo. I'll see what I come up with.

The one sad thing I find about this mod, is that the boss battles feel really unrewarding if you don't use the Automated ships skill. If you don't and took the 3 integrated hullmod ships, you don't get to even salvage the boss ship and are locked in your choice on top, and the guns you will loot will very likely murder the capabilities of your ships... and out of all the bosses I found so far, not a single one of them was not an automated ship And evew with the automated ship skills.. not sure you'd even be able to fly one at full efficiency because of how the automated ships skill affects CR.

overall, beyond even winning the fight, which is hellish enough... I feel like you gain overall too little if you didn't take that one end of tree skill. And considering on the other hand that the bosses will chew through capitals like candy..
None of the bosses are salvageable for good reasons (although the last one's escort ships are regardless of skills). The rewards are the extremely powerful weapons you can get, and the satisfaction of having removed a great threat from the universe. If you can beat all of them, what else there is to do anyway? They could be considered a victory condition.

That being said, I am working on an additional incentive to beat those bosses as early as possible.
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Futanagatari

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #113 on: May 15, 2021, 04:26:26 AM »

The one sad thing I find about this mod, is that the boss battles feel really unrewarding if you don't use the Automated ships skill. If you don't and took the 3 integrated hullmod ships, you don't get to even salvage the boss ship and are locked in your choice on top, and the guns you will loot will very likely murder the capabilities of your ships... and out of all the bosses I found so far, not a single one of them was not an automated ship And evew with the automated ship skills.. not sure you'd even be able to fly one at full efficiency because of how the automated ships skill affects CR.

overall, beyond even winning the fight, which is hellish enough... I feel like you gain overall too little if you didn't take that one end of tree skill. And considering on the other hand that the bosses will chew through capitals like candy..



That's what the 'addship' command is for. Also i suggest editing the '.ship' file in the 'hulls' folder of the mod, so you can remove the built in 'Automated Ship' mod. Just add an # in front of the "automated". If you don't remove the mod then the ship will be useless (15 max cr) and you cant pilot it.

There is a way to make the ship salvageable but i forgot how to do it. If anyone knows do tell, 

Modding mods is modception :D
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 04:28:11 AM by Futanagatari »
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Thorveim

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2021, 05:29:57 AM »

The one sad thing I find about this mod, is that the boss battles feel really unrewarding if you don't use the Automated ships skill. If you don't and took the 3 integrated hullmod ships, you don't get to even salvage the boss ship and are locked in your choice on top, and the guns you will loot will very likely murder the capabilities of your ships... and out of all the bosses I found so far, not a single one of them was not an automated ship And evew with the automated ship skills.. not sure you'd even be able to fly one at full efficiency because of how the automated ships skill affects CR.

overall, beyond even winning the fight, which is hellish enough... I feel like you gain overall too little if you didn't take that one end of tree skill. And considering on the other hand that the bosses will chew through capitals like candy..
None of the bosses are salvageable for good reasons (although the last one's escort ships are regardless of skills). The rewards are the extremely powerful weapons you can get, and the satisfaction of having removed a great threat from the universe. If you can beat all of them, what else there is to do anyway? They could be considered a victory condition.

That being said, I am working on an additional incentive to beat those bosses as early as possible.
[/quote]

Oh yeah i agree that if you beat those you essentially beat the game... but they look like they would be fun to mess around with regardless :p

as for beating them early.. i don't think thats possible without some really cheesy tactics ^^
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #115 on: May 15, 2021, 11:48:43 AM »

Oh yeah i agree that if you beat those you essentially beat the game... but they look like they would be fun to mess around with regardless :p

as for beating them early.. i don't think thats possible without some really cheesy tactics ^^
Well two of them are fairly easy to deal with by mid-game, and I will be veeeeeery slightly nerfing the other two to make a smoother progression instead of the current massive cliff. 
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Twilight Sentinel

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #116 on: May 15, 2021, 03:17:23 PM »

Would there be any chance the bosses could get added to the map after you discover them, so it's fairly easy to find them again if you stumble on them long before you can safely engage them?
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c37blader

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #117 on: May 18, 2021, 06:49:47 PM »

I noticed that with this mod installed, there seems to be a somewhat ridiculous amount of Hedone class ships available on markets, so much so that even with a dozen or so other faction and ship packs installed, it seems like 50+% of frigate sized ships in markets are Hedone. I investigated the files, and honestly I can't really find anything wrong, but I feel like this isn't the behavior anyone, including the mod author. wants. When comparing to some other mods, I did notice some differences. For example, a lot of other mods don't add entries for shipsWhenImporting in the faction files, instead just adding a base_bp or other appropriate tag to ships. Maybe not coincidentally, when I load either your mod or Missing Ships Mod (the only other mod I have installed which edits shipsWhenImporting on a large scale), I have trouble finding ships from other mods. But when I googled to try to understand how shipsWhenImporting works, I was even more confused. It doesn't seem like it should have the effect it is having. Even on worlds with a heavy industry, which shouldn't be relying on the shipsWhenImporting, I basically just see Hedone frigates with your mod installed.  :(

Do other people notice this? I feel like I can't be the only one frustrated by the overwhelming number of Hedones. It really sucks because otherwise this mod is great and I don't want to disable it, but I feel like it's impossible to find frigates from other mods with it enabled. I was getting so fed up with it, that I sat there and did ForceMarketUpdate and Find Ship repeatedly, and was unable to find some frigates from other mods after 30+ market updates. Upon disabling Seeker, those same frigates were typically present in 1 or 2 markets every reset.

Edit: I should probably mention that this is mainly an issue with Tri-Tachyon. I usually play as them, or at least commission with them in the beginning. Also, I tried removing the Hedone from their shipsWhenImporting, and that didn't fix it. Maybe even made more Hedone, somehow? Hard to tell, since it's close to 100% Hedone with and without the change.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 07:05:06 PM by c37blader »
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Wyvern

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #118 on: May 18, 2021, 07:46:30 PM »

That sort of thing is usually a result of some other mod over-writing the faction files and wiping out the normal entries. At the very least, I don't have this issue.
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c37blader

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Re: [0.95a] Seeker - Unidentified Contact 0.42 (2021/03/27)
« Reply #119 on: May 18, 2021, 11:01:53 PM »

That sort of thing is usually a result of some other mod over-writing the faction files and wiping out the normal entries. At the very least, I don't have this issue.

I wish that were the case, but it's definitely this mod that is the issue. Anyone can test this the same way I just did...

Compare Nex + CC + Seeker versus just Nex + CC.

With just Nex + CC, select non-random core worlds, Tri-Tach start, immediately dock, and run ForceMarketUpdate until you see at least 1 of every high tech non-phase frigate (Wolf, Omen, Tempest, Scarab) between the 3 markets there. Then do the same thing with Seeker also enabled.

For me, without Seeker, I saw every high tech frigate within 4-5 market resets most of the time, sometimes the scarab or tempest would be hard to find. With seeker turned on, after 30 market resets usually the only high tech frigate I see is the Wolf, sometimes Omen too. I don't think I saw a single Tempest or Scarab.

I still can't figure out why it's happening though. :(
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