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Author Topic: General Thoughts from a new player  (Read 3949 times)

Tempest

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2020, 06:48:23 AM »

Make it a toggle. People that don't like it or are using too many mods can turn it off. People that expect something that has been industry standard for more than a decade for good reason to be in the game get to have that QoL feature.

Then we'll get complaints that it's taking too long, and why is there even a toggle if it's taking so long.

Basically, if a feature is implemented, it should be working properly, otherwise it should not be implemented. Quicksave is enough then.
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SCC

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2020, 07:12:41 AM »

Also, saving in general is annoying. Why not just allow the creation of save files instead of using this goofy 'create copy' or whatever?
I missed this part, but wanted to reply to it. The reason why default saving is overwriting is because the intended way to play is not to roll back, only go forward. Even if you lose your entire fleet, you still keep some credits and more importantly, skills. And everything else in the world, so if you have colonies or stashes, you can still go there and get a kickstart.
I savescum anyway.

DancingMonkey

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2020, 08:16:56 AM »

Strange my starting colony usually has very small fleets attack it until it gets to like size 5 or 6. I usually start a colony in the first 2 years and never really had the problems you are talking about, once the massive pirate fleets started coming, I was already strong enough to beat them with my space station to support me and I bribe away others for a really long time.
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Alex

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2020, 09:51:43 AM »

Also, saving in general is annoying. Why not just allow the creation of save files instead of using this goofy 'create copy' or whatever?
I missed this part, but wanted to reply to it. The reason why default saving is overwriting is because the intended way to play is not to roll back, only go forward. Even if you lose your entire fleet, you still keep some credits and more importantly, skills. And everything else in the world, so if you have colonies or stashes, you can still go there and get a kickstart.
I savescum anyway.

(I'll say, I should probably have another look at exactly how that's structured, though. I may have been playing too much Warband when I did that.)
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Serenitis

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2020, 06:14:50 AM »

Autosave could possibly use system transitions, as they are never instant & there's some time while the ships are wobbling around in the jump point.
If there's going to be a toggle to turn the feature on/off, there could also be a toggle (maybe a 2-way slide button) to set whether the save occurs on entering a system, or leaving.
Both would likely be overkill. And there's fors and againsts for both options, so letting the player choose what they prefer would be nice.
Would also be nice if autosave had its own dedicated save slot.

Related story of limited interest:
Spoiler
I (30 mins ago as of this post) recently ran into something that this would have prevented.
Having departed from my colony, I had set about exploring an 'arm' of systems which lead out to the corner of the map. I've got lots of cargo space so I'm just scooping up everything I can find as I scan planets. Lots of salvage, lots of clicking. I've got a good rhythm going and before I know it I've cleared 5 systems & am moving onto the 6th.
Entering system no.6 nothing is any different, I head for the local gas giant to scan it's mightyfine collection of moons.
Only out of the magnetic field jumps a pather bounty fleet I had no idea was there as I didn't have any transmetals to build relays in any of the previous systems.
Can't E-burn away as they're already as full speed and I know I can't accelerate fast enough in the distance between us, so I have to fight them.
And Pathers are one of the few things I can't really deal with atm, so ofc it's a loss.

Okay. No big deal, just just reload and try not to do that.
Reload.
...
...
Now the astute reader will have noticed something.
Not once in any of that waffly meandering horsesh...ugar above was there any mention of saving.
For there was no saving. So caught up in my little rhythm that I had entirely forgotten about that.
So upon reloading I was presented with my fleet in orbit of my colony. Exactly as it was nearly an hour previously.
<ESC>
<Exit without saving>
It'll probably be a couple of days before I touch it again. Once I've forgotten how annoyed I am with it/myself.
[close]
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 06:25:13 AM by Serenitis »
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xrogaan

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2020, 06:43:05 AM »

New player here and I too have some niggles on the subject of pirates and piracy in general. I may have missed details or simply failed to properly expose my thoughts, and so, dear reader, I invite you to raise any weakness from the following text so I can happily address them.

The problem.

The existence of pirates in the context of the sector is hard to be believable considering the high overhead in supplies and fuel. I suspect that the IA isn't bottlenecked by those two parameters though, and I understand the reason. However from a lore point of view, pirates shouldn't be able to function as they are now.

I've seen this issue being raised on these forums every now and then, but without any realistic proposition to have the whole piracy make sense. This message as for object to do just that: I aim to suggest a different approach.

What needs to said before anything is this: if pirates can successfully create an outpost days away from any civilized world, why would they bother traveling to harass so called civilized worlds? It is simply not practical, and such groups should really not be referred to as pirates. More on that later.

How pirates comes into and out of existence.

Pirates are not a faction, but rather an assembly of misfits and/or outlaws.They inherently exists wherever and whenever civilization occurs. As such, any system with a colony will inevitably generate a local populace of outlaws. That being said, piracy only matters in the void and not in the ports and local pirate gangs could be allowed to dock so long their status aren't well known.After all, where would they sell their ill gotten gains?

However it stops once the gang becomes famous, do too much piracy and see yourself blacklisted from local ports. The denial would possibly generate three outcomes:

  • The local gang stocks up on fuel and supplies then move to another system, to either continue their piracy or simply settle down with their ill gotten gains.
  • The local gang, if successful enough, creates an outpost somewhere in the system. This outcome would realistically happens only if either the system's stability is low or if there is no law enforcement around to make an outlaw's life harder.
  • The gang dissolve as the group can no longer hide from authorities.
What current pirates ought to be.

I drive this section from the Belter, from the show and novels The Expanse. If you haven't already seen the show, I would vigorously invite you to do so. It is expertly made and relatively realistic on how politics and culture would evolve within an interplanetary solar system.

Following the lore, and if I understand it correctly, the sector got cut off from the rest of the galaxy leaving a core of well developed worlds amidst a group of partially colonized worlds. We can see the outcome by exploring and finding both remnants drones and worlds in ruins. However ruination isn't the only end that could befall previous colonization efforts. Indeed, the sector dynamics could find a real life parallel with the European efforts of exploration and colonization. As such, a well off civilization can support upstart groups, which historically found their own independence either brutally or peacefully. The sector, though, got its independence by being cut off brutally from their support, with the most developed worlds unable to sustain ongoing colonization efforts. Which cascaded into the dramatic outcome of remote worlds being lost.

However some worlds might have survived the brutal event, managing to centralize efforts into an eventual space-faring civilization. With the memory of being abandoned still burning within the populace's mind, they would see the core worlds with nothing but scorn. Still, unable to be outspoken and brazen about their feeling, their stance if they want to remain independent from any interference it to be politically neutral. Being too far away to be lorded over,destruction would be the only outcome if they were to be made into a enemy of a core faction.

Thus being unaffiliated would be the official stance of those previously lost worlds. However, being so far away, scarcity of resources would drive people into expeditions to "acquire" those needed resources from the core worlds,usually in an illegal way. Those groups would be officially denounced by the lost worlds, and unofficially welcomed.

More over, any independent faction within the core worlds would have quickly been absorbed by a major power. There is no reason to leave resources to unaligned forces.
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Megas

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2020, 08:11:47 AM »

The most sense pirates need to make is they are generic chaotic evil bad guys the player beats up for gold and XP.  However, as implemented, they are omnicidial zombies or demon horde that dominate too much of the gameplay.
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SonnaBanana

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2020, 08:44:35 AM »

Sadly I don't think this will change with 0.9.5a, Alex still has to flesh out more factions and mechanics.
Pirates are still going to be zombie deathballs, albeit weaker than they are right now.

Of course I could be wrong
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Megas

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2020, 09:19:22 AM »

Sadly I don't think this will change with 0.9.5a, Alex still has to flesh out more factions and mechanics.
Pirates are still going to be zombie deathballs, albeit weaker than they are right now.

Of course I could be wrong
I think he wrote that he fixed a bug with respawning, so that they are not ready to raid worlds shortly after they respawn.
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xrogaan

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2020, 09:27:05 AM »

The most sense pirates need to make is they are generic chaotic evil bad guys the player beats up for gold and XP.  However, as implemented, they are omnicidial zombies or demon horde that dominate too much of the gameplay.
The sense I tried to flesh out is that even then, as generic bad guy, their existence do not fit the state in which the sector is. There is not enough resources for them to exists in the way they are portrayed.

It would make sense to have a piracy level within a system, determined by the level of civilization of the system. But an interstellar gang of pirate, organized and wealthy enough to fit such large fleet doesn't make sense. They would be far more richer and efficient at colonizing their own world and living peacefully than raiding the core worlds.

I'm sorry, but your answer is too mellow for my tastes  ;)
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Megas

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2020, 09:38:11 AM »

@ xrogaan:  It is true pirates do not feel or act like pirates.  They are too powerful and bloodthirsty to be anything less than a demonic invasion from hell.  Of course, there are players who do not care about plot (or give little heed to it) and just want to kill things like in classic Doom or an 80s arcade game, along with players will care more about lore elements.
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Igncom1

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2020, 09:40:32 AM »

The luddic path are like pirates, which is weird.

They just want your money and will ask for it to let you go.
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BanjoJohn

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2020, 01:21:02 PM »

Personally, if there are no laws, there are no outlaws.  I know we probably won't get this in game, but a "regulation of economy" slider would be interesting, with no regulations you'd get no pirates, but maybe other outliers, with highest regulations you'd get more pirates, because more things would be outlawed so more people are breaking laws because of just how many laws there are.   Just an idea, maybe impractical, maybe doesn't belong in this game.
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SCC

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2020, 11:53:32 PM »

I wonder what Alex wants pirates to be in the final product. Just be low-level enemy for player fleet and later colonies, or will there be more to them? Hopefully not in the sense of constant raiding.

kenwth81

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Re: General Thoughts from a new player
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2020, 09:12:52 AM »

Also, saving in general is annoying. Why not just allow the creation of save files instead of using this goofy 'create copy' or whatever?
I missed this part, but wanted to reply to it. The reason why default saving is overwriting is because the intended way to play is not to roll back, only go forward. Even if you lose your entire fleet, you still keep some credits and more importantly, skills. And everything else in the world, so if you have colonies or stashes, you can still go there and get a kickstart.
I savescum anyway.

(I'll say, I should probably have another look at exactly how that's structured, though. I may have been playing too much Warband when I did that.)

Regarding the save files. Manual save is better. Trust me! You don't want 30 save files cluttering all over the load screen which you have to manually delete. If the game ever have the autosave function it should be optional. The problem with autosave is it usually have to be saved on separate files. If not Autosave could create unrecoverable save files during buggy moments or locked in bad situation like just before boss fights. And thus autosave could create its own set of problems like spawning of lots of unnecessary save files. AutoSave feature is a safety net for people who do not save their game frequently but is of little value to those who do or have a systematic approach in place.


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