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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 390809 times)

SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2130 on: August 29, 2021, 08:25:29 AM »

While you the player will only have the number of officers you have managed to find. It is not uncommon in my case for this number to be zero for a significant amount of time since I don't obsessively check comm directories on the few occaisions I visit the core, mostly because I'll forget about it.
Have you not found any officers in cryo pods? They aren't terribly common, but I typically found at least five of them. At some point I was even thinking that Officer Training skill is pointless, since you will find enough level 7 officers out in the rim anyway...

Now, I'm not exactly great at combat in the first place. I have less than great physical dexterity because I used to be a riveter and whitefinger is a ***t of a thing.
But I've found the combat in 095 to be significantly harder than it was in 09.1 to the point that I just don't want to deal with it.
I can't quite identify what it is that's making things feel this different, but I suspect it's because I don't have nearly as many officers as the opponent and that's making them really aggressive, while my guys are really passive.
(This is all guesswork on my part - so ??)
If you don't bother hiring officers, that's probably it. 0.9.1 could be played without ever taking Officer Management, so the base number of them was 4. Now it's 8, and you (and the enemy) can get mercenaries, too.

Honestly, I think this is one of the worst design descisions. Basing fundamental game mechanics off luck based events.
That's basically campaign, isn't it? You can be certain to find in the outer rim, in the enemy fleet, for sale or raid for a ship/weapon/officer/blueprint, but if you want the ship/weapon/officer/blueprint, you have to get lucky the game rolled the dice in your favour. At least now you can mentor officers to change their personality slightly and get more skills to choose on promotion.

If this is staying in, there really does need to be some way for the player to create officers. Raise crew from the ranks etc.
There's an intel message you can receive after combat (it's random), that let's you promote a member of your crew to a full officer.

In 09.1 the player could ultimately control 4 planets directly, plus another 3 via governers for a total of 7. This was fine.
In 095 the player can control 2 planets directly, plus another 2 via governers for a total of 4. This, less so.
Plus 1 more directly and 1 more via admin, if you take Colony Management.

I would also say that when it comes to "I waste a skill point because to get a skill I want, I first need to get a skill I don't want" issue, that was a thing in 0.9.1, too. You could get 49% of all skills, instead of 38% now, but people didn't mind wasting a skill point, because the value of each skill point was low, because you had 52 of them (and now just 15).

* AI can have more than ten officers and break caps if they want, which they did not do before.  I blame mercs for this, and I wished they were never implemented.  At least AI would have no excuse for breaking caps if mercs were never implemented (and if it did anyway, it would be a blatant violation of rules like fleet caps were in previous releases.)
Two mercenaries at all times are sustainable. Alex is also extending contract duration to double, so it should be possible to have four. I hope he will implement a way to find multiple mercs to hire (not hire multiple mercs, because I don't want to pay four story points to get one good merc and three I don't care about).

Megas

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2131 on: August 29, 2021, 09:53:00 AM »

Now, I'm not exactly great at combat in the first place. I have less than great physical dexterity because I used to be a riveter and whitefinger is a ***t of a thing.
But I've found the combat in 095 to be significantly harder than it was in 09.1 to the point that I just don't want to deal with it.
I can't quite identify what it is that's making things feel this different, but I suspect it's because I don't have nearly as many officers as the opponent and that's making them really aggressive, while my guys are really passive.
(This is all guesswork on my part - so ??)
If you don't bother hiring officers, that's probably it. 0.9.1 could be played without ever taking Officer Management, so the base number of them was 4. Now it's 8, and you (and the enemy) can get mercenaries, too.
They did not affect DP distribution back then, so officers were less critical than today.

* AI can have more than ten officers and break caps if they want, which they did not do before.  I blame mercs for this, and I wished they were never implemented.  At least AI would have no excuse for breaking caps if mercs were never implemented (and if it did anyway, it would be a blatant violation of rules like fleet caps were in previous releases.)
Two mercenaries at all times are sustainable. Alex is also extending contract duration to double, so it should be possible to have four. I hope he will implement a way to find multiple mercs to hire (not hire multiple mercs, because I don't want to pay four story points to get one good merc and three I don't care about).
How many will human endgame fleets have?  12?  14?  All at level 6 and 7.  Will player be assumed to get both officer skills (for ten level 6 officers)?  I probably will not get officer skills myself.  Today, AI cores in player's fleet count toward officers, but they will not next release.

I do not want to burn story points extending contacts with mercs, and I do not want to tour the sector looking for mercs at all times.  That is too similar to playing whack-a-mole pirate/pather base.  Oh, their salaries were much higher than officers (maybe close to colony admins), and I could not afford that at the time since I did not have colonies built up enough for high income when I needed them.

But fights against Ordos are the only recurring fights that matter at endgame.  (They are much stronger than any NPC human fleet, and a decent endgame fleet can rollover said human fleet for easy flawless victory.)  Before 0.95, they (Remnants) obeyed the same officer cap as the player (I guess), but they clearly do not now.  That one picture against Ordos(10) in the blog had twenty ships, and every last one of them had an alpha core officer.  Is that the standard Ordos fleet that the player will fight to grind for cores in a red system after they reach max strength?  Isn't all elite skills on their officers enough of an advantage?
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2132 on: August 29, 2021, 10:01:35 AM »

This is p. great as far as settings go, and imo it felt p. great to jive with this by leaning into it super hard and using whatever stuff could be found or recovered.
There were even skills available that allowed you to do that more effectively, and that was really apropos for the setting.
And so I spent a ton of time just repeatedly doing this as my core gameplay, and building around it as various things happened or were found.
Really leaning into the mechanic that these ships might be trash, but I can support and deploy more of them explictly because of that.
It felt right.

So having those particular skills straight up removed from the game in 095 was... Not really the best feeling I've ever had tbh.
Even more galling was the (excuse my language) absolute dogs dinner that was the new Derelict Contingent skill, which would have been the perfect place to put those particular abilities but instead had some really odd/unbalanced effect that runs into another issue I have.

I'll just say, the skill changes for the next release go back in that direction. This blog post goes into some detail about it; you can search for "Derelict Operations".

Re: officers - just to make sure, you're aware that you can hire them at colonies, right? To do this, open the comm directory and look for an "Officer (available for hire)". There's not *always* going to be one but they're pretty common, to the point where while there is some RNG in getting them, you shouldn't have any trouble filling out your roster over the medium to long term.

(Edit: ah, re-read what you said, and you did mention not checking comm directories. I mean, fair enough if you don't want to do that. But, the game assumes that you *will* have officers, and provides you with a reliable means of getting them; not having any is pretty far outside the norm. I mean, in some sense "not using officers" is a choice you might make, but it just makes the game 10x more difficult for no real benefit, so it's not a choice the game design really considers, if that makes sense.)
« Last Edit: August 29, 2021, 10:13:36 AM by Alex »
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SonnaBanana

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2133 on: August 29, 2021, 06:25:12 PM »

Is Impact Mitigation kind of redundant and underperforming compared to new armor/hull skills now, any plans for replacement?

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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2134 on: August 30, 2021, 09:44:52 AM »

Why would you not want to stack them?

Serenitis

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2135 on: September 13, 2021, 11:34:46 AM »

"not using officers" is a choice you might make, but it just makes the game 10x more difficult for no real benefit,

It's not as if I'm deliberately avoiding them though.
I'm just not often in a position to pick any up via markets, and when I am I'm pre-occupied with other things.
And those that are 'rescued' have to be evaluated as 'is this person useful right now?', because it's going to be a non-trivial amount of time before I can throw them at an academy to change them to a disposition I can actually use.

It just seems a bit rough when officers are now hard required or it makes the game 10x harder, but the only way to get them is play 3 separate lotteries each of which involves a significant investment of playtime which may or may not line up with what you actually want to do.
If officers are so vitally important that the game is significantly harder without them, why is there no guaranteed way of getting them regardless of what the player is doing?

That the 'raise from the ranks' is a thing that already exists is good.
I've not seen it yet though (in my admittedly small time playing this version).
I'd like to be able to spend a story point to force this though. That would probably remove this issue entirely tbh.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2136 on: September 13, 2021, 12:26:28 PM »

... and when I am I'm pre-occupied with other things.

Honestly - I mean, I get how this might happen, and do the same sort of thing in other games sometimes (hello, never using the Adrenaline ability in Jupiter Hell...) - but I feel like at that point that's on you, if that makes sense. It's a reliable (over the short to medium term) way of getting officers and it's there and you're not using it, you know?

That the 'raise from the ranks' is a thing that already exists is good.
I've not seen it yet though (in my admittedly small time playing this version).

I bet you might actually have run into it! It's just easy to miss - but the good thing is the intel sticks around for a long time. ... or, wait, is that a change in the in-dev version? It might be, actually, so never mind that aspect of it :)
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2137 on: September 13, 2021, 01:06:42 PM »

And those that are 'rescued' have to be evaluated as 'is this person useful right now?', because it's going to be a non-trivial amount of time before I can throw them at an academy to change them to a disposition I can actually use.

Out of curiosity, what is the academy that can change an officer disposition?  Is it from a mod?  I'm unfamiliar with that in the base game.  I am familiar with the mentoring option accessed from the officer screen in the 0.95a release, which lets me spend a story point and shift an officer's original nature by 1 along the timid/cautious/steady/aggressive/reckless continuum, along with being able to pick from among 3 skills at level up instead of 2.  Admittedly, that option is greyed out for max level (or higher) officers you happen to find, but it is an instant effect otherwise.

Although, question to Alex, would it hurt to allow it to at least shift a max or higher level officer's nature, even if you don't get the leveling benefits?  It would certainly mean those high level cautious/steady officers I find in escape pods in the wild would be more likely to be used.

It just seems a bit rough when officers are now hard required or it makes the game 10x harder, but the only way to get them is play 3 separate lotteries each of which involves a significant investment of playtime which may or may not line up with what you actually want to do.

To be honest, officers are only required for the combat portion of the game.  If you're not focusing on combat at the time, then you can pretty much ignore them, and simply run from/avoid significant threats.  If you're not doing a lot of combat, officers are a negative as they're just draining credits without doing anything. 

The way I see them, is when I'm gearing up to a combat fleet, officers are just another piece of the puzzle I have to put a little time into getting, along with good combat ship hulls, sufficient rarer weapons, and hull mod unlocks.  All of which are lottery driven as well.  Although I do tend to grab good officers/weapons/hull mods as I find them and hoard them in anticipation of that transition.


If officers are so vitally important that the game is significantly harder without them, why is there no guaranteed way of getting them regardless of what the player is doing?

This could be leveled at any of the random aspects of the game that feed into fleet strength.  At the moment in 0.95a, I personally don't have too many issues with officer rarity given the new mentoring mechanics, as 80% of starting officer dispositions are at least usable (cautious->steady and reckless->aggressive help a lot), and 3 picks at level up leaves me with at least one good skill pick. 

Finding an Odyssey to purchase, on the other hand, when I've got more than enough credits on hand is a pain.  Or making sure I've got Plasma Cannons/Tachyon Lances stored somewhere, as the shops inevitably don't have them when I finally have a ship to fit them on.  I feel like many veteran Starsector players have a giant stash of weapons they collect and never sell, since selling them isn't really worth it, and the stores never have that one weapon you're looking for when you need it.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 01:08:22 PM by Hiruma Kai »
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SCC

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2138 on: September 13, 2021, 01:13:51 PM »

I feel like many veteran Starsector players have a giant stash of weapons they collect and never sell, since selling them isn't really worth it, and the stores never have that one weapon you're looking for when you need it.
The better question is, why don't you have a hoard of weapons? It's the only way to guarantee you'll have at least basic access to every role you need.

Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2139 on: September 13, 2021, 01:16:12 PM »

Although, question to Alex, would it hurt to allow it to at least shift a max or higher level officer's nature, even if you don't get the leveling benefits?  It would certainly mean those high level cautious/steady officers I find in escape pods in the wild would be more likely to be used.

Ah - from the in-dev (not published) patch notes:
Officers at or beyond max level and with maxed out elite skills can be "retrained"
      Elite skills changed
      Personality changed (+- 1 step)
      Costs 1 story point and grants 100% bonus XP
      Works on level 7 cryopod officers
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Brainwright

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2140 on: September 13, 2021, 02:00:52 PM »

I feel like many veteran Starsector players have a giant stash of weapons they collect and never sell, since selling them isn't really worth it, and the stores never have that one weapon you're looking for when you need it.
The better question is, why don't you have a hoard of weapons? It's the only way to guarantee you'll have at least basic access to every role you need.

The even better question is why don't markets supply equipment that is in demand?

The single best reason to make a colony is storing your stock of weapons.  It's a pain.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2141 on: September 13, 2021, 05:07:50 PM »

IMO basic weapons really ought to be available in basically infinite amounts everywhere. Maybe literally make them infinite like a lot of games do - you can buy however many you want. That would also be really nice for player-made weapons, instead of having to order them in advance/hoard them.
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2142 on: September 13, 2021, 05:15:33 PM »

I feel like many veteran Starsector players have a giant stash of weapons they collect and never sell, since selling them isn't really worth it, and the stores never have that one weapon you're looking for when you need it.
The better question is, why don't you have a hoard of weapons? It's the only way to guarantee you'll have at least basic access to every role you need.

Never said I didn't.  Having played since 0.7.2, I feel like I fall into the veteran category for Starsector by now, so in my mind, I was including myself in the statement. :)
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Vanshilar

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2143 on: September 13, 2021, 06:03:57 PM »

It just seems a bit rough when officers are now hard required or it makes the game 10x harder, but the only way to get them is play 3 separate lotteries each of which involves a significant investment of playtime which may or may not line up with what you actually want to do.
If officers are so vitally important that the game is significantly harder without them, why is there no guaranteed way of getting them regardless of what the player is doing?

Eh I think you're looking at this situation wrong.

We as fellow forum-goers are trying to tell your that officers will help your fleet immensely. Basically that it's worth your time to get them.

If you choose not to make the effort, you don't have to, but then that's on you as a player, to play the game that way. It's not up to the game to force you to get officers via some guaranteed means, you're supposed to make the effort. You can lead a horse to water and all that. Yes it's probabilistic. But the chance of you never coming across an officer is vanishingly small after a little bit of play time. I mean there's a chance of you rolling a 1 100 times in a row, but we don't really worry about that.

Also, the game does guarantee you officers, if you go out and explore. There are a guaranteed number of officers per game that you'll find in cryo pods; in fact IIRC Alex will be decreasing that amount next patch because there are currently too many (i.e. it's too easy).

If you're visiting markets, you're bound to come across officers on the comm board. If you're exploring, you're bound to come across officers in cryo pods. If you're fighting, you'll get officers from your own crew. So the game gives you officers pretty much no matter what you're doing, unless you're not visiting markets, not exploring, and not fighting, in which case, I'm not sure what else there is to do.
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Deshara

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #2144 on: September 13, 2021, 07:14:28 PM »

... and when I am I'm pre-occupied with other things.

Honestly - I mean, I get how this might happen, and do the same sort of thing in other games sometimes (hello, never using the Adrenaline ability in Jupiter Hell...)

oh my god i do that too!! lol thats why i only play recon at this point. idk what it is about the way the game is presented to the player but i never think to use adrenaline but i will remember to use stealth -- and the funny thing is, I only use stealth in the exact way that adrenaline is supposed to be used; to get myself out of a bind on the turn before im probably gonna die by getting off a safe heal. it's just, for some reason using energy to pop stealth so i can use medkits without being attacked hits my brain different than using fury to pop adrenaline so i can ???? heal in some way ????. my brain never quite glued on to how its healing works or how much its supposed to be. probably why i dont play that class. its a solid abject lesson in the importance of informational clarity
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