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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: A Tale of Two Tech Levels (05/28/21)

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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 300540 times)

Voyager I

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1935 on: May 05, 2021, 06:12:21 PM »

Okey, maybe 1650 it is too high
Maybe?  1650 is more base armor than any ship in the game has except 1 (2 if accounting for variants), and you declared it to be an average value.
Quote
Also i use all medium slots with blasters,
Quote
I do not have maximum vents with my blasters.
I'm curious yet concerned as to what your builds look like.  That sounds eerily like the builds newbies show up with when asking why their guns aren't firing, and why are their flux bars full all the time...

1650. Okey, key. Than calculate 100 armor, not 83 as I

All medium mounts with blasters. No maximum vents. That ship can hunt everything including remnants, and it has sane armor/hull damage. You shoot hull fast, no need to shoot it for half of hour with weak bullet weapons.

You realize Safety Overrides completely changes the flux economy for a ship and also necessitates specialized builds to leverage the rules it imposes, right? Most ships won't have SO, and the ones that do don't play by the same rules as normal ships.
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Satirical

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1936 on: May 05, 2021, 11:44:19 PM »

For the marine bar missions I only get them at my own colonies for some reason  :( never found a marine bar mission at hegemony / tritach / independent bars

and by marine bar missions i mean the one where u pick up extra marines who fight in vac or black
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 10:47:09 AM by Satirical »
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WeiTuLo

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1937 on: May 06, 2021, 12:22:42 PM »

Those marine bar missions have been very rare. I have only seen one so far in 0.95a, and I should have several hundred hours of gameplay already.
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Histidine

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1938 on: May 06, 2021, 05:38:08 PM »

They need a stability 6 or lower market to show up, which sounds like they should be rare but not super rare.
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WeiTuLo

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1939 on: May 06, 2021, 06:31:03 PM »

Oh that makes sense. I increased the base stability everywhere.
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Vanshilar

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1940 on: May 07, 2021, 03:18:01 AM »


(Hi - just super quick; I'm pretty sure the majority of what you're talking about AI-wise is fixed in RC15.)

Thanks for looking into it; I updated to RC15, using the same RC12-generated saved game (not sure if that matters), but still see a lot of AI issues -- not necessarily the same ones as before though:

1. The Medusas, when told to eliminate a target, will happily expose their rear (unprotected) engines to other ships to get blasted to smithereens. Not sure if this has to do with the Medusa having omni shields by default but having the front conversion hullmod; not sure if the AI takes this into account. Granted, elimination command does mean "eliminate at all cost" but it should not mean "eliminate at unnecessary cost", when the Medusas will either maneuver or teleport from previously safe positions to positions where they expose their vulnerable parts to other ships. This also includes taking on a lone Radiant when a lone Medusa (other ships weren't there yet) at high flux will maneuver/teleport to directly in the path of the Radiant's front hardpoints to get obliterated by its autopulse lasers. In fact generally speaking Medusas will happily engage Radiants but hesitate to engage frigates/destroyers, but not sure if this is just confirmation bias.
2. The Medusas still seem to be more "scared" of enemy ships than the Drovers. I still see Medusas disengaging from easy kills when at low/zero flux, while nearby Drovers are still charging full speed ahead. Again, all ships (Medusas and Drovers) have aggressive officers, while Drovers only have Salamanders and Light Machine Guns as weapons, so there's no reason for Drovers to be more willing to engage ships than Medusas.
3. I thought maybe there might be something to do with the Eliminate command, but even with Engage, Medusas will back off (in fact back off even more i.e. farther away), while Drovers still run in.
4. Even when told to Eliminate, i.e. to save a Drover under fire, Medusa will come close and then back off, letting the Drover die. Medusa was at zero flux.
5. Generally speaking, there's no reason for Drover AI to decide to get closer to enemy ships than Medusa AI, when the Drover only has Salamanders/LMG (and broadsword/spark) while the Medusas have SO and lots of short-range weapons. But I still see this happening very frequently. I thought it may just be due to inertia (for example, Medusas can retreat faster than Drovers, maybe Drovers simply couldn't change direction quickly enough, etc.), but I'm seeing Medusas running away while at low/zero flux while Drovers will just stay in melee range of enemy ships.
6. Funny thing is, enemy Scintillas (destroyer carriers) have no problems running away from me, i.e. I can see them starting to back off long before I get into weapon range, and they have worse speed/maneuverability stats than Drovers, plus actual non-PD weapons. Not sure if there's something wrong still with carrier AI when they only have missiles and PD regarding staying a proper distance away from enemy ships, or something with Medusas (due to SO or whatnot) being unnecessarily hesitant.

On a separate note, I messed around with having a Radiant in my fleet. The Radiant seems to drop its shields and try to armor tank unnecessarily, i.e. at low flux, when in combat. This means its weapons quickly get disabled and it disengages. That's not good AI behavior when it's the tank.

Screenshots:
screenshot002.jpg and screenshot003.jpg -- At the bottom is a lone Lumen. The Medusas to its right were attacking it, then backed off. The Drover kept pressing forward. Maybe the Medusas were leashed by the "Defend" and "Capture" commands, but I doubt it, since they will happily pursue ships much farther away before being leashed. Those commands were set at the beginning of battle and in fact the nav buoy used to be mine before the ships left to pursue other ships. The Drover kept trying to chase the Lumen while the Medusas backed off, when the Medusas were perfectly capable of finishing it off.
screenshot013.jpg -- The Drover at the top went out of position, then got in trouble. So I ordered the Medusas to "Eliminate" the Fulgent that's attacking it. The highlighted Medusa closed in (to around where the missile above it is), then backed off without firing. Zero flux. Drover died.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1941 on: May 07, 2021, 08:00:58 AM »

Hmm - what's the loadout of the Drover? And, are you able to observe this behavior in the simulator?

(Are you sure it's not just it being unable to back off fast enough, while the Medusas *are* able to, and leave it behind?)

Quote
I still see Medusas disengaging from easy kills when at low/zero flux

My guess would be it's due to the danger of being flanked! In general - I appreciate all the info, but there's *so much* going on in battles that, functionally, I can't do much without being able to reproduce the behavior myself.

(Re: #1 - as you noted, the tooltip for eliminate does state "at any cost". At that point, the decision is in the hands of the player. The AI is very concerned about getting flanked - it can be disastrous! - and the primary function of Eliminate is to tell it not to be. So that's actually pretty much working as intended; it's very much not a "fire and forget" command. If you want "more cautious but still try to attack this" behavior, there's the Engage command. Edit: as it looks like you're aware :) )
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 08:04:55 AM by Alex »
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WeiTuLo

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1942 on: May 09, 2021, 12:17:25 PM »

I have contacts on my colonies offering me Surplus Nanoforge Production opportunities with my own blueprints at a markup. It's very amusing. Do they not realize that those are my nanoforges? Now if they offered use of their own blueprints, that could be interesting.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1943 on: May 09, 2021, 12:41:29 PM »

... yeah, the trader/military versions should probably not be offered at player colonies, really. I mean, I could see them being marginally useful by increasing the total production (since you could do that *and* normal production), but on the balance...
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WeiTuLo

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1944 on: May 09, 2021, 01:28:11 PM »

Perhaps they could occasionally buy some production capacity from us as well. Then when they try to sell some back to us, that could explain it.
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Gothars

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1945 on: May 10, 2021, 03:38:28 AM »

I have contacts on my colonies offering me Surplus Nanoforge Production opportunities with my own blueprints at a markup. It's very amusing. Do they not realize that those are my nanoforges? Now if they offered use of their own blueprints, that could be interesting.

My favorite way of dealing with that would be to have a dialog option where you reveal your identity and them fleeing the bar in a panic ;D  Same with some other underworld bar missions, btw.
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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Undead

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1946 on: May 10, 2021, 05:29:07 AM »

I have contacts on my colonies offering me Surplus Nanoforge Production opportunities with my own blueprints at a markup. It's very amusing. Do they not realize that those are my nanoforges? Now if they offered use of their own blueprints, that could be interesting.

My favorite way of dealing with that would be to have a dialog option where you reveal your identity and them fleeing the bar in a panic ;D  Same with some other underworld bar missions, btw.

I like your proposal, add flavour to the game ;D
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WeiTuLo

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1947 on: May 10, 2021, 07:43:39 AM »

That would be glorious!
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Sinigr

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1948 on: May 11, 2021, 12:27:12 AM »

It seems in r15 most contacts are not adding to contact list in intel, no future communication available. Much missions froc contact where done.
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"officerMaxLevel":29,
"officerAIMax":36,
"maxOfficersInAIFleet":36
"tier1StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier2StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier3StationOfficerLevel":29,
Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png

Sinigr

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1949 on: May 11, 2021, 12:32:46 AM »

Okey, maybe 1650 it is too high
Maybe?  1650 is more base armor than any ship in the game has except 1 (2 if accounting for variants), and you declared it to be an average value.
Quote
Also i use all medium slots with blasters,
Quote
I do not have maximum vents with my blasters.
I'm curious yet concerned as to what your builds look like.  That sounds eerily like the builds newbies show up with when asking why their guns aren't firing, and why are their flux bars full all the time...

1650. Okey, key. Than calculate 100 armor, not 83 as I

All medium mounts with blasters. No maximum vents. That ship can hunt everything including remnants, and it has sane armor/hull damage. You shoot hull fast, no need to shoot it for half of hour with weak bullet weapons.

You realize Safety Overrides completely changes the flux economy for a ship and also necessitates specialized builds to leverage the rules it imposes, right? Most ships won't have SO, and the ones that do don't play by the same rules as normal ships.

It is that goal. You need to put SO to take some blasters, if you would not do so you will shoout hulls for very long. Just try shoot onslaught from simulation with some other weapons (exeption plasma cannons) and than shoot it with balsters, you will see. Also, if you are going to speak about missiles look for 5+ onslaughts and fight it, than you will see that you do not have enought missiles for that.
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"officerMaxLevel":29,
"officerAIMax":36,
"maxOfficersInAIFleet":36
"tier1StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier2StationOfficerLevel":29,
"tier3StationOfficerLevel":29,
Try to hunt it! ;)
https://i.imgur.com/gXIAgGy.png
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