Fractal Softworks Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

Pages: 1 ... 85 86 [87] 88 89 ... 146

Author Topic: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 595843 times)

Maethendias

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Esteemed Warlord
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1290 on: March 31, 2021, 04:34:35 PM »

From a general game design theory standpoint i think its good to have a skill system where you need to take some skills you might not really want in order to progress down the tree. The reason is this gets around the problem that occurs with min/maxing of removing more specialist or secondary abilities.

in praxis, it does exactly the opposite of what you are describing

people ARE min maxing to take the skill that is the least useless to them, instead of a skill which they would WANT to take

which is exactly that, min maxing, but instead of optimizing the fun out of the game,

the game forces you to optimize the fun out of the game because otherwise you wont HAVE fun (instead of optimizing "positive growth", you are optimizing a net negative)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 04:38:41 PM by Maethendias »
Logged

ANGRYABOUTELVES

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • AE ALTADOON GHARTOK PADHOME
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1291 on: March 31, 2021, 05:06:32 PM »

Spoiler
[close]
This is long after the related quest is over. As you can see, there is no hegemony fleet, but I still cannot do the thing.
Logged

Flet

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 65
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1292 on: March 31, 2021, 05:09:36 PM »

people ARE min maxing to take the skill that is the least useless to them, instead of a skill which they would WANT to take

What you are describing - the optimization of these least useful options - is more a consequence of the way the game has you pick between two skills at each step, and not anything to do with the general principal of having 'gateway skills' of less usefulness.
Logged

intrinsic_parity

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 3071
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1293 on: March 31, 2021, 05:38:52 PM »

Any skill system that doesn't give you every single skill will force you to give up certain things for other things, there's no getting around that. I think this system is a cool concept for trying to make the choices more tailored/specific/interesting rather than just 'pick between 40 skills' where you are almost always going to ignore certain skills and always take other skills. I do think there are some flaws in the specific tree that could be improved, but in concept, I like it a lot. Also I think a slightly higher level cap would go a long way towards smoothing over the rough edges on the system.

I've really been enjoying figuring out the new system and what works best in it.
Logged

Alex

  • Administrator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 23986
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1294 on: March 31, 2021, 05:54:26 PM »

... I do think there are some flaws in the specific tree that could be improved ...

(I just want to say, I absolutely agree here, and appreciate all the feedback!)
Logged

ANGRYABOUTELVES

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • AE ALTADOON GHARTOK PADHOME
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1295 on: March 31, 2021, 06:03:37 PM »

Raiding proc-gen pirate stations for supplies seems really strong, especially with Ground Operations. It's just money, but I haven't paid for supplies in like 10 in-game years.
On further consideration, I'm paying 10,000 credits per month for these 500 marines, and my fleet needs about 250 supplies per month. So if I'm not using them for anything but raiding for supplies, and that's how I'm getting all my supplies, I'm only saving 15k credits per month plus however many supplies I use on combat; call that another 15k. That's good, but not overpowered IMO.
Logged

ANGRYABOUTELVES

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 592
  • AE ALTADOON GHARTOK PADHOME
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1296 on: March 31, 2021, 09:16:16 PM »

My phase frigates with officers that have elite Phase Mastery don't give themselves enough time/space to slow down when coming out of phase and keep ramming stations and exploding themselves.
Logged

TaLaR

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2794
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1297 on: March 31, 2021, 10:10:54 PM »

My phase frigates with officers that have elite Phase Mastery don't give themselves enough time/space to slow down when coming out of phase and keep ramming stations and exploding themselves.

While in part this is AI problem, it is kinda problem for player too. Elite Phase Mastery improves max speed, but not acceleration/deceleration (or at least not to same degree), so dealing with inertia becomes that much harder (at least without Helmsmanship + Auxiliary Thrusters)
Logged

Maethendias

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Esteemed Warlord
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1298 on: April 01, 2021, 01:23:10 AM »

Any skill system that doesn't give you every single skill will force you to give up certain things for other things, there's no getting around that.

 the problem is that its not only a "limited" skill system (very limited btw, 15 skillpoints for 40 skills), its a skill tree progression system, AND a pick and choose system all at once
Logged

Anvel

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1299 on: April 01, 2021, 01:52:21 AM »

About the skills system, the best solution would be separating each skill tree exp gain from one another, let combat give exp to personal skills, colony building and management give exp to industrial, etc. And skill three is a good idea, to get to better, top skills you have to learn something simpler.
Logged

THEASD

  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 42
  • *Confused Cat Noise*
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1300 on: April 01, 2021, 01:59:35 AM »

maybe issue, crashed when finishing a CustomProductionContract, infering that the person is not in the market from the trace stack
Logged
Also known as AnyIDElse.

AcaMetis

  • Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 483
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1301 on: April 01, 2021, 02:42:58 AM »

I've noticed that a lot more trade fleets seem to get lost than in 0.9.1, and while that doesn't matter much for the core sectors it can really deflate (already nerfed) player colonies. My colonies seem to have at least one trade fleet lost at any one point in time, sometimes as much as three at once, and depending on what is lost that can costs me multiple tens of thousands in profit. And colonies have serious problems generating that much anywhere but late in their development cycle, so it really doesn't need another strike against it.

... I do think there are some flaws in the specific tree that could be improved ...

(I just want to say, I absolutely agree here, and appreciate all the feedback!)
For what it's worth I guess here's mine:

One, there's just not enough skill points, 15 points to choose from 40 skills is just not enough, especially when some of them very much feel like "mandatory" skills - Special Modifications is basically the new Loadout Design, in that respect, so that's five of your very limited point pool spend already if you don't want a fleet that's losing out on a fair chunk of power. Which, based on what I've heard about bounty fleets containing a half dozen capitals and three player fleets worth of officers, well, good luck surviving that with a few (CR crippled) [REDACTED] ships instead of better, beefier regular ships.

Second, the whole "reach the end of the tree, then you can go back and fill in the rest of the tree" is a nice idea, but in practice it often leads to you needing to pick skills which don't work together in order to pick a skill that does. For instance if I wanted to max out the industry tree because I want many profitable colonies I'd need to pick both Field Repairs (passively removes d-mods) and Derelict Contingent (gives officered ships bonuses for having d-mods). The skill tree is trying to do two things at once, offering different playstyle choices and allowing you to get everything if you're willing to invest that much (too much, honestly) into it, which doesn't work.

Third, although I'm sure it's more a "me" problem than a "game" problem, same as in 0.9.1, there's no way to get fleet-specific skills any way other than to get them yourself. Combat skills? Hire officers. Colony skills? Hire administrators. Of the 40 skills ingame 22 of them are player exclusive or at least have some kind of player-exclusive effect (Ground Operations' raiding bonus), so it seems like a no-brainer choice for the player to grab them. Especially since many of them have pretty powerful effects in their own right.

Fourth, the option to raise maximum player level in the settings is basically a trap option at the moment because it'll increase the experience required regain story points in the end. Apparently that can be modded easily, but, eh...stuff is little more than voodoo magic to me, and I don't feel like "it can be modded" is really a solution either.
Logged

TerranEmpire

  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1302 on: April 01, 2021, 05:24:58 AM »

Well, that was my suggestion, too. Instead of picking every skill, we should be able to pick from the remaining skills after wrapping around. And maybe a max level of 18-20. With the current skill system, I can't even max out the colony management skills.
Logged

Trylobot

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1170
    • View Profile
    • Github profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1303 on: April 01, 2021, 08:01:03 AM »

oh shitttttttt
Logged

Zaizai

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1304 on: April 01, 2021, 08:43:02 AM »

I feel like the automated ships skill is extremely cool in practice, but has way too little of an impact compared to the alternative. Just 30 points means that with just 3 [REDACTED] version of the kite with 3 gamma cores, i'm already at full capacity... sure i could take a bigger ship with reduced CR, but as much strong a single redacted ship can be, other than the novelty, giving 10 to flux capacitors and vents, and an extra hullmod to every single ship is just too good to pass out.  My suggestion would be to raise the maximum points, even doubling it,  reducing the points cost of the gamma core while increasing beta and alpha cores cost. 
I think it would be balanced if you could have a single good ship with a good commander and enough leftover points for a couple of smaller ships with trash commanders, or a lot of smaller ships with trash commanders , or some medium sized ship with good commanders etc, opening up to various combinations that are impossible right now
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 85 86 [87] 88 89 ... 146