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Author Topic: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes  (Read 599485 times)

Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1275 on: March 31, 2021, 12:26:45 PM »

I have had a few problems with aggression, though it was more with steady officers. In that case it was dominators staying completely out of range of a Radiant battleship. Normally not a bad idea, but when I have full assault, specific eliminate orders, multiple cruisers all pointed at the ship, and the ships are at 0 flux and not being fired on, I really want them to move into gun range.

In that one instance I swapped command of my ship, pressed F to burn drive in, and quickly swapped command to another ship and pressed F again, before going back to my flagship. Funny, but not ideal. :D
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1276 on: March 31, 2021, 12:38:02 PM »

Hmm. So I just fixed an aggression-related issue - even reckless/eliminate-ordered ships were considering optimal rather than minimal weapon range under certain circumstances.

But regarding Sabot use, no luck so far. E.G. that Radiant from Anvel's save vs an Atlas and 3x Condor in the simulation, I haven't seen it fire Sabots at the fighters even once. If anything, it looks to be doing a competent job of dispatching everything on the field quickly while largely ignoring the fighters buzzing around it. Wonder what the key is here...
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Radicaljack

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1277 on: March 31, 2021, 12:45:34 PM »

So far every RC build has fixed issues I've had, other than that it's like learning a whole new game in regard to new ships and the skills are really important now. I'm still getting a handle on skills,  started a new game so I wasn't sitting on permanent ones that I couldn't see the other side of but I am very happy so far with this patch. The AI seems a little over eager to use ship capablities just to stay in formations, plasma jetting with no visible enemies just to move back into place after burning, but it does seem much smarter now. Perhaps the cautious and aggressive modes need a little more of a line between them, and I'm unsure why my cautious Medusa tactical build is the most insane dude I've ever seen, he charged into a remnant station but then somehow survived it with 150 hp hull left for 7 minutes more.....

Loved the game since I've first fell into it, but this was truly a second life that I can't imagine modders won't be able to do a lot with.

Also the writing is just fantastic, love the Galatia Academy characters and even though it is something you can skip, reading the writing is always entertaining and makes the world feel a little more alive, even in this massive sandbox.
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Thaago

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1278 on: March 31, 2021, 12:56:03 PM »

Hmm. So I just fixed an aggression-related issue - even reckless/eliminate-ordered ships were considering optimal rather than minimal weapon range under certain circumstances.

...

That could be it! I recalled when reading this that Dominators are slower than Brilliants, so they couldn't catch it without burn driving which brings them much closer than optimal. They probably were trying to close in and didn't have any options to get to optimal.
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Anvel

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1279 on: March 31, 2021, 01:01:46 PM »

Hmm. So I just fixed an aggression-related issue - even reckless/eliminate-ordered ships were considering optimal rather than minimal weapon range under certain circumstances.

But regarding Sabot use, no luck so far. E.G. that Radiant from Anvel's save vs an Atlas and 3x Condor in the simulation, I haven't seen it fire Sabots at the fighters even once. If anything, it looks to be doing a competent job of dispatching everything on the field quickly while largely ignoring the fighters buzzing around it. Wonder what the key is here...

I'm sorry, Astral not Atlas ;D, not much of a carrier user here.
Way to recreate it - start Radiant test, spawn 3 Condors and Astral, manually raise shield and let fighters start to attack you, and then give the ship search and destroy command, at some point fighters will hit his armor/hull or maybe that's emp damage issue, but after his hp gets hit he starts to shoot sabots at them.

Seem like it mostly happens then his flux level is close to max.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 01:23:19 PM by Anvel »
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pairedeciseaux

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1280 on: March 31, 2021, 01:07:31 PM »

Finally completed the Phantom blueprint mission.

Spoiler
Ahem, it was indeed in a ruin ... in a gas giant. I don't know, I used to avoid surveying gas giant because of the high surveying cost. Looks like it cost less AND sometimes there is interesting loot.
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Sutopia

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1281 on: March 31, 2021, 02:19:01 PM »

I think combat aptitude doesn’t need a tier tree.
Officers don’t respect it anyways so why does player have to?
I only need the shield skill while all prerequisites are useless to me, don’t feel like sinking three points just to get there.
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Voyager I

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1282 on: March 31, 2021, 02:52:41 PM »

My AI Greeble so far was a Gryphon loaded entirely with missiles and point defenses that was consistently pushing to the front of the engagement to unleash the power of its Flak Cannon in direct combat.  I attempted to discourage the behavior by removing the Flak for more Vulcans, which had the opposite of the desired effect.
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Alex

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1283 on: March 31, 2021, 02:55:18 PM »

So far every RC build has fixed issues I've had, other than that it's like learning a whole new game in regard to new ships and the skills are really important now. I'm still getting a handle on skills,  started a new game so I wasn't sitting on permanent ones that I couldn't see the other side of but I am very happy so far with this patch. The AI seems a little over eager to use ship capablities just to stay in formations, plasma jetting with no visible enemies just to move back into place after burning, but it does seem much smarter now. Perhaps the cautious and aggressive modes need a little more of a line between them, and I'm unsure why my cautious Medusa tactical build is the most insane dude I've ever seen, he charged into a remnant station but then somehow survived it with 150 hp hull left for 7 minutes more.....

Loved the game since I've first fell into it, but this was truly a second life that I can't imagine modders won't be able to do a lot with.

Also the writing is just fantastic, love the Galatia Academy characters and even though it is something you can skip, reading the writing is always entertaining and makes the world feel a little more alive, even in this massive sandbox.

*thumbs up*


That could be it! I recalled when reading this that Dominators are slower than Brilliants, so they couldn't catch it without burn driving which brings them much closer than optimal. They probably were trying to close in and didn't have any options to get to optimal.

Ah, hmm - that wouldn't affect burn drive use, but might still help. Honestly, not sure; just impossible to say without seeing the exact situation. Heck, it might help from the other end - by making the Radiant more aggressive!

I'm sorry, Astral not Atlas ;D, not much of a carrier user here.
Way to recreate it - start Radiant test, spawn 3 Condors and Astral, manually raise shield and let fighters start to attack you, and then give the ship search and destroy command, at some point fighters will hit his armor/hull or maybe that's emp damage issue, but after his hp gets hit he starts to shoot sabots at them.

Seem like it mostly happens then his flux level is close to max.

Ahh, I see. It does use Sabots when it's swarmed by fighters, flux is near maxed, etc. But this isn't actually a problem - it's firing out of desperation, basically, and even by the time it's taken down it still has most of its Sabots left. It *would* be a problem if, say, it wasted Sabots on fighters and none were left for better targets. But this isn't like that - it's just shooting more stuff in a situation where it's likely to be destroyed anyway, and not dumping out the entire magazine, either.


Officers don’t respect it anyways so why does player have to?

They do respect it up to and including tier 3, btw. After that they get access to everything.

My AI Greeble so far was a Gryphon loaded entirely with missiles and point defenses that was consistently pushing to the front of the engagement to unleash the power of its Flak Cannon in direct combat.  I attempted to discourage the behavior by removing the Flak for more Vulcans, which had the opposite of the desired effect.

Hmm, yeah... probably better off putting an HVD on that. The AI doesn't really have a concept of "this is primarily a missile ship" and uses non-missile weapons for range-finding - well, and stuff like Annihilators, which it considers kind of non-missile weapons until their ammo gets low. A cautious officer might work, too; not 100% sure offhand.
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Pokpaul

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1284 on: March 31, 2021, 03:15:55 PM »

Rather minor, but when ships get all their d-mods repaired by skills, it still says 'this ship has suffered lotsa damage....' in the ship description.
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Sutopia

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1285 on: March 31, 2021, 03:45:56 PM »

My point is, not all aptitudes need to be created equal.
I remember back in older versions the skill trees don’t even have the same lengths.

As of current skill system, I really don’t know what to think.
Combat tree is too restrictive by having the tree to climb.
If a skill isn’t “piloted” only, it can’t become elite.
This makes the entire system very hard to understand or working with.
More often than not I’m trying to find a skill that is “less bad” in the tree for the higher tier ones, which is not a pleasant decision making process.

My thought would be re-organize aptitude categorization and apply different rules to different aptitude.

Combat aptitude: piloted ship only, can elite
Unlock: None. Grab whatever you want

Fleet command: fleet combat performance, separated into three tiers: basic, advanced, superior
Unlock: Starting from basics. Investing 2 points in a tier unlocks the next. You can grab whatever you want in tiers unlocked.

Mastermind: logistic/administrative
Unlock: Current tree system can fit in fine
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Gosts

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1286 on: March 31, 2021, 04:07:03 PM »

I love skills, and I love trees. The previous skill system wasn't perfect, but I don't know if this is a step up. It's a bit too restrictive and hard to make a build i'm happy with.

This is a totally out-there example suggestion, don't take is seriously: What if you could move vertically on the skill tree as well as horizontally? If you go to T2 in combat, you could move straight down to T2 leadership, or move up and loop around to T2 industry?

That idea is silly but like, I think this could work if there was just some kind of additional way to *get around* in the skill tree, ya dig? Some kinda looping, switching, or branching that lets you get more options to skip skills you don't like.
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Flet

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1287 on: March 31, 2021, 04:08:03 PM »

From a general game design theory standpoint i think its good to have a skill system where you need to take some skills you might not really want in order to progress down the tree. The reason is this gets around the problem that occurs with min/maxing of removing more specialist or secondary abilities.

I always like to compare skill systems in games to hard class systems. Hard class systems, where you simply have a set of pre-defined abilities which unlock as you progress through the game, have some advantages. Namely they can contain thematic class skills or abilities that no player trying to build an optimized character would ever take. This allows situational abilities or fluff skills to be included which unlock certain interactions and situations in games that nobody would ever encounter otherwise. In a class based system people do not complain about these abilities, because they are just class characteristics. In skill based systems where a good skill is separated from you by first having to select a lesser skill, it feels like a 'skill tax' simply because the player is now made to actively select and confirm a skill they dont want.

This is a psychological problem and could have a simple psychological solution. Find and designate the skills which are more of a gateway, something you must pass through which are more of a bonus perk for the two skill point costing skill following it, and make their icon smaller on the skill tree. The game acknowledging the skills as being less useful may be all that is required to alleviate the sense of wrongness a player might feel.

Of course acknowledging some skill pairings are less useful does indicate a balance pass to ensure the following skills are worth the extra point investment.

Further, the frustration may simply stem from people not feeling their builds are completed. This might be a thing that would go on forever untill you have as many skill points available as skills, or it might result from actual deficiencies in skill tree layout. Certain skills fit certain thematic builds better than others, running into situations where you are always a few skill points short could well be an objective and real consequence of synergistic skills which the player wants to connect up simply feeling like a punishment requiring the loss of other synergies. Ideally in a skill building system its most satisfying for a player, after planning out their build, to definitely be able to conclude "yes, i could not improve this, these are the optimal skills for what i envision the character to be".

I also think the skills with fleet size conditions should maybe have secondary effects that do not get diminished as well, simply to avoid the feeling that a skill becomes worthless. While in practice these skills always have some effect, they dont feel like it when you are sitting there trying to make a build, humans are simply not so good at assessing variables like this. Giving the skills something solid for the mind to latch on to could also alleviate the discomfort involved in taking them.
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1288 on: March 31, 2021, 04:11:28 PM »

Minor nitpick: I got a bounty given to me by one of my contacts and their Atlas and Prometheus ships showed up in the intel assessment. I feel like this is a bug since I don't remember ever seeing this anywhere else
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ANGRYABOUTELVES

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Re: Starsector 0.95a (Released) Patch Notes
« Reply #1289 on: March 31, 2021, 04:19:10 PM »

Raiding proc-gen pirate stations for supplies seems really strong, especially with Ground Operations. It's just money, but I haven't paid for supplies in like 10 in-game years.
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