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[AcaMetis]

Hmm - does Nexerelin adjust punitive expeditions etc? I've been kind of assuming that whenever I hear about that, it's a vanilla thing, but it'd be good to know if it's in fact different in Nex.

Punitive expeditions, not that I'm aware of. And personally I turn random player diplomacy off in Nex' config, so random faction DoWs and the sudden invasions they would bring isn't something I have to deal with either. Unless I actively pull the trigger first, but than obviously I'm fully aware of what I'm signing up for.

Gotcha, yeah - same page here. But e.g. "you need X amount of <whatever> for the colony to get to the next step towards taking off on its own" but there's no rush/consequences if you don't do it now now now sounds reasonable.

Something that would stall colony growth would probably end up being seen as a priority task regardless, since obviously we want our colonies to grow. But that would only feel like babysitting if I was only informed of what's needed X days after the colony is founded, and couldn't drop stuff off ahead of time (and not have those resources be consumed for other reasons). Or if, say, a trade fleet gets lost and the colony suddenly needs me to personally go acquire and deliver X amount of goods to resume production of the Spaceport or wait out the (month-long?) shortage, that'd easily end up feeling like babysitting.

But if I'm told "this colony will (eventually) need an additional 200 Heavy Machinery to become self-sufficient" right when I try to put down the colony, that's fine. That doesn't require me to stay near my colonies to manage stuff I can't manage remotely, or for me to drop whatever I'm doing and go do something else somewhere else with no warning because something random happened.

I think "oh it's just a Kite with Reapers" has a winning record against player flagships overall.

Hmm...I've actually gotten exploded by my own bombers deploying a field of faster-moving mines right behind me and my unshielded rear more often than I've gotten hit by a Reaper, actually, at least hit on something other than my shield. My main supply of crow comes from (usually Phase) ships sneaking behind me and slowly dismantling my engines. Still haven't found a decent way to deal with phase ships either, other than waiting for them to forget that they're functionally untouchable and get slaughtered.

[intrinsic_parity]

Commenting on the babysitting stuff:
I'm pretty sure Nex adds invasions and raids where hostile factions try to capture or harass your colonies, and those can be quite a bit bigger than the expeditions for the current colony level. They're not as common as expeditions though. I'm not sure if nex adjusts expeditions at all.

For me personally, I would want 'defend your colony' type missions to be rare and very difficult rather than common and fairly easy. I think the babysitting feeling comes from the fact that current expeditions happen somewhat frequently so that the player ends up constantly going back to their colony unless they build up some impenetrable defenses. This has led me to delay making a colony until I can afford to immediately build up a level 2 station and ground defenses so that I minimize the amount I need to personally defend.

I would like major defense type stuff (expeditions) to only really happen 3-4 times over a campaign, but I would also want it to be very difficult. Something where you know many months in advance and are trying to prepare by building up your fleet or whatever (maybe add some temporary defense mechanics as well). Maybe there could be some intel missions where you get a tip in a bar, or from a contact, that a faction is upset with your production and you can recon the fleet that is assembling or sabotage it etc.

[shoi]

I feel like there are only so many ways I can say I don't think it's a good fit in-fiction-wise.

Kind of unrelated, but is the player the de-facto "leader" of planets they colonized, or more like ....a majority stakeholder?

[Alex]

I think I misread a comment somewhere about concern that the fleet cap would cause capital heavy fleets, but the patch notes say the fleets will be better balanced.

(Gotcha!)

My concern with this based on the current version of the game is that high hazard colonies tend to really lag behind other colonies in profits until they get big. So now if they are forced to be small, then it feels like the will never be as good as low hazard colonies. Do you feel like small mining colonies are valuable enough to be worthwhile over other colonies? The player can only manage a finite number so it feels like in the pursuit of making high hazard mining colonies thematically small, you might make them not very good in general. Unless the in-faction supply bonuses have been increased significantly, or the balance of profits for really good ore resources has changed, I can't really see a small mining colony with only one or two industries being useful. I'd rather just have another size 6 titan colony with 3 big production industries.

With the caveat that I'm not 100% sure exactly how it'll shake out - you might have a touch time having 3 big production industries on 3 colonies as I'd imagine the special items to make this happen would be a bit thin on the ground.

I do see what you're saying, though. I guess we'll see? The hope is that item boosts will be enough to overcome hazard in an otherwise-suitable planet. If that doesn't work out, there's things to look at, I suppose - tuning items, maybe planetary conditions (something like ore deposits having production limits based on ore deposit quality, perhaps), etc...

Punitive expeditions, not that I'm aware of. And personally I turn random player diplomacy off in Nex' config, so random faction DoWs and the sudden invasions they would bring isn't something I have to deal with either. Unless I actively pull the trigger first, but than obviously I'm fully aware of what I'm signing up for.

Commenting on the babysitting stuff:
I'm pretty sure Nex adds invasions and raids where hostile factions try to capture or harass your colonies, and those can be quite a bit bigger than the expeditions for the current colony level. They're not as common as expeditions though. I'm not sure if nex adjusts expeditions at all.

Thank you for the added info!

Something that would stall colony growth would probably end up being seen as a priority task regardless, since obviously we want our colonies to grow. But that would only feel like babysitting if I was only informed of what's needed X days after the colony is founded, and couldn't drop stuff off ahead of time (and not have those resources be consumed for other reasons). Or if, say, a trade fleet gets lost and the colony suddenly needs me to personally go acquire and deliver X amount of goods to resume production of the Spaceport or wait out the (month-long?) shortage, that'd easily end up feeling like babysitting.

But if I'm told "this colony will (eventually) need an additional 200 Heavy Machinery to become self-sufficient" right when I try to put down the colony, that's fine. That doesn't require me to stay near my colonies to manage stuff I can't manage remotely, or for me to drop whatever I'm doing and go do something else somewhere else with no warning because something random happened.

Hmm, I don't think I agree here; "priority" is different from "long-term negative consequences if you don't". Having things to prioritize is fine. I mean, establishing a colony could be considered "babysitting" in that light. And if you know all the requirements ahead of time, that just translates into having to get more stuff together to start a colony, and that just seems boring. This'd have to get thought through some; I don't think pure resource requirements would be all that interesting here - rather, "things to do" might work better. For example, "survey the entire system", "establish a comm relay", "clear out a pirate base that's in a system next door", "deal with a Pather expedition (that may be hostile or friendly, with Consequences either way), etc...

For me personally, I would want 'defend your colony' type missions to be rare and very difficult rather than common and fairly easy. I think the babysitting feeling comes from the fact that current expeditions happen somewhat frequently so that the player ends up constantly going back to their colony unless they build up some impenetrable defenses. This has led me to delay making a colony until I can afford to immediately build up a level 2 station and ground defenses so that I minimize the amount I need to personally defend.

I would like major defense type stuff (expeditions) to only really happen 3-4 times over a campaign, but I would also want it to be very difficult. Something where you know many months in advance and are trying to prepare by building up your fleet or whatever (maybe add some temporary defense mechanics as well). Maybe there could be some intel missions where you get a tip in a bar, or from a contact, that a faction is upset with your production and you can recon the fleet that is assembling or sabotage it etc.

*thumbs up* generally speaking.

Kind of unrelated, but is the player the de-facto "leader" of planets they colonized, or more like ....a majority stakeholder?

Yes!

[Melanoc3tus II]

Totally important question here.

What is your opinion on sub frigate size pilotable or autonomous craft? By this I mean gunships, patrol boats, corvettes, heavy fighters, the like.

The Robberfly Corvette (from Blackrock) in particular seemed to be a very interesting concept, light, manoeuvrable, unshielded, and very small, but with enough weaponry to pose a credible threat to low level freighters. And incredibly synergistic with tactical lasers.

I believe the Mayasuran Navy mod has a ship sized heavy bomber, a novel concept to be sure.

Anyways, it's simply that such things please me for some reason. Aside from that, I feel that shuttles as they are now are just a bit too bulky to be entirely credible, and something smaller would bring much flavour.

This is is so low on your priority list that it's alongside me when I first played Minecraft on creative, accidentally dug through the map into the void, and died. Mods have this kind of thing in spades, and while I feel they have it because it's genuinely cool, and a niche yet to be filled in the base game, they still do have it, so the only thing to contribute would be a canon variant. Not that that's not valuable in and of itself, but it's not on the same level as everything else.

Oh, and don't worry. This is a one time thing, no post pollution. The colony debate requires the majority of discussion, else sifting through all the random sh*t will be a nightmare. Or at least a time/energy sink. Space too, if you think about it.

[SCC]

I can't really speak much about colony development, because the thing I really want with colonies is the orders tab. Colonies by themselves are just puzzles of how to make the most money out of them and custom production is the only unique (for the time being) benefit.

Kind of unrelated, but is the player the de-facto "leader" of planets they colonized, or more like ....a majority stakeholder?

Yes!

Ah, the mathematician's answer.

[CoverdInBees]

The way i see it you are their leader, or at least something along those lines, but not nearly as strictly as i've often seen people assume.

The way the numbers make the most sense (for me at least) is when you consider building an "industry" as building the government structures needed to deal with that industry (administration, regulation, other overhead etc) and then the migrants that actually build up and work in those industries pay a tax which ends up as your income.

This makes the most sense (again imo) for the relatively small sums needed to start something (and that it then grows along with the population by itself) and that you get *relatively* little return from it. Also makes it more reasonable that costs/benefits increase linearly while pop increases by orders of magnitude, and all kinds of other little things like that.
Often i've had the idea that people complaining about the mechanics "not making sense" expect people to migrate to your colonies to become your personal slaves. xD

[Megas]

I think the babysitting feeling comes from the fact that current expeditions happen somewhat frequently so that the player ends up constantly going back to their colony unless they build up some impenetrable defenses. This has led me to delay making a colony until I can afford to immediately build up a level 2 station and ground defenses so that I minimize the amount I need to personally defend.

The frequency (especially once Free Port is on) is why I want to destroy the core worlds.  No core worlds, no more expeditions (or the need to defend them from zombie pirates).

I delay colony building until I can build up the necessary defenses immediately.  Level 1 battlestation and other modest defenses are enough for -1/-10% pirates.  I do not build any industries aside from Farming and Military Base so that I do not attract expeditions.  Once I think I obtain enough power to defeat endgame threats, I build up and grow population as fast as I can.

However, having impenetrable defenses for my colonies only solves part of the babysitting problem.  The other problem is the neverending zombie pirates that successfully raid (the mostly undefended) core worlds constantly unless I intercept the pirates.  In one game, I ignored the pirates for a few years and Asharu decivilized and (I think) few other worlds had zero stability from constant pirate raids.  If I want to save the core worlds for income purposes, I need to chase pirates constantly to save the core worlds.

[AcaMetis]

Hmm, I don't think I agree here; "priority" is different from "long-term negative consequences if you don't". Having things to prioritize is fine. I mean, establishing a colony could be considered "babysitting" in that light. And if you know all the requirements ahead of time, that just translates into having to get more stuff together to start a colony, and that just seems boring. This'd have to get thought through some; I don't think pure resource requirements would be all that interesting here - rather, "things to do" might work better. For example, "survey the entire system", "establish a comm relay", "clear out a pirate base that's in a system next door", "deal with a Pather expedition (that may be hostile or friendly, with Consequences either way), etc...

Yeah, point taken. I'd be fine with it so long as it doesn't force me to interrupt what I'm doing and doesn't completely stall out colony stuff to the point where I feel like I'm wasting time if I don't get it done. Not that there's a time limit to the game, but it's best if stuff that takes time grows in the background while I go explore the Sector a bit more. Rather than me finishing all my explorations and only then doing the colony stuff, resulting in me sitting around for years waiting for stuff to grow.

However, having impenetrable defenses for my colonies only solves part of the babysitting problem.  The other problem is the neverending zombie pirates that successfully raid (the mostly undefended) core worlds constantly unless I intercept the pirates.  In one game, I ignored the pirates for a few years and Asharu decivilized and (I think) few other worlds had zero stability from constant pirate raids.  If I want to save the core worlds for income purposes, I need to chase pirates constantly to save the core worlds.

Random suggestion: Would turning off worlds decivilizing in the configs help with that at all? It makes no sense for it to happen to the core worlds like that and if your own colonies are at stability 0 for that long you'll likely have enough problems to deal with anyway. That's what I did in my last vanilla run, right before...some world, I can't remember which, but right before some core world would have decivilized. Only reason that save still has all the core worlds intact.

[Alex]

Totally important question here.

What is your opinion on sub frigate size pilotable or autonomous craft? By this I mean gunships, patrol boats, corvettes, heavy fighters, the like.

The Robberfly Corvette (from Blackrock) in particular seemed to be a very interesting concept, light, manoeuvrable, unshielded, and very small, but with enough weaponry to pose a credible threat to low level freighters. And incredibly synergistic with tactical lasers.

Well, I'm not sure how this is different from "specialized frigate"! As far as larger fighters, I think they look kind of awkward when they fly over things or take off/land, so just aesthetically, that's not a direction I want to go.

I can't really speak much about colony development, because the thing I really want with colonies is the orders tab. Colonies by themselves are just puzzles of how to make the most money out of them and custom production is the only unique (for the time being) benefit.

Yeah, exactly.

[Megas]

@ AcaMetis:  My worlds were fine.  It was the Indie worlds in Corvus and Arcadia that got wrecked because I ignored pirates (because I did not want to stop exploring in the fringe where my colonies were, and it should be up to the Hegemony and Indies to defend their worlds and clean up their mess.)

After that game, I have basically played Superman or Batman rushing to intercept every last pirate raid so that core worlds' stability does not drop.  (And I do not want their stability to tank so I can raid them for blueprints later and not decivilize those worlds.)  Chasing pirates to protect core worlds takes a big chunk of babysitting time, probably more than defending my worlds.  Then the core worlds thank me by sending expeditions.  It is like a scene right out of the movie High Plains Drifter where player is Clint Eastwood, the cowardly townsfolk whose town is painted red are all of the non-pirate factions, and the outlaws terrorizing the town until they die in the end are the relentless zombie pirates.

Pirates effortlessly decivilizing worlds in five to ten years is sort of lore breaking.  AI wars and other big conflicts among major factions are just not believable when zombie pirate overlords overwhelm everyone with ease.

[FabianClasen]

Not gonna lie. Absolutely hyped for this one.

[intrinsic_parity]

@ AcaMetis:  My worlds were fine.  It was the Indie worlds in Corvus and Arcadia that got wrecked because I ignored pirates (because I did not want to stop exploring in the fringe where my colonies were, and it should be up to the Hegemony and Indies to defend their worlds and clean up their mess.)

After that game, I have basically played Superman or Batman rushing to intercept every last pirate raid so that core worlds' stability does not drop.  (And I do not want their stability to tank so I can raid them for blueprints later and not decivilize those worlds.)  Chasing pirates to protect core worlds takes a big chunk of babysitting time, probably more than defending my worlds.  Then the core worlds thank me by sending expeditions.  It is like a scene right out of the movie High Plains Drifter where player is Clint Eastwood, the cowardly townsfolk whose town is painted red are all of the non-pirate factions, and the outlaws terrorizing the town until they die in the end are the relentless zombie pirates.

Pirates effortlessly decivilizing worlds in five to ten years is sort of lore breaking.  AI wars and other big conflicts among major factions are just not believable when zombie pirate overlords overwhelm everyone with ease.

I just clear whatever bases have bounties put on them most of the time, and I never have issues with decivilization. I never fight individual raids.

[Megas]

I just clear whatever bases have bounties put on them most of the time, and I never have issues with decivilization. I never fight individual raids.

I try to clear base bounties too, but sometimes, I do not always catch them all on time, and I need to intercept a raid (unless I need the raid to succeed to proc a system bounty).  Ever since Asharu decivilized after a few years in that one game, I have hunted pirates mostly non-stop to prevent another decivilization (until I decide the core worlds need to die).

[CoverdInBees]

I'm not too familiar with the lore but isn't the whole idea that after the initial shock of the collapse the situation has only deteriorated further? IIRC the whole syndrian diktat mess and the last AI war just before that are barely more than a decade ago at the start of the game too.
Granted, clearly the pirates don't behave as they realistically should, but from the parts of the lore that i know it shouldn't be too far fetched that the main factions are in a very vulnerable state compared to the power they had over the course of the last 2 centuries.

decivilizing in 5 or 10 years is also a bit of an exaggeration i'd think. I've had at least a few playthroughs where i kept going more than 10 years and don't think i've ever seen a decivilization warning come up for even a backwater planet of the main factions in an unmodded game.