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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Of Slipstreams and Sensor Ghosts (09/24/21)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.3.1 - courier services  (Read 27458 times)

Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics - courier services
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2020, 10:16:11 AM »

Nice job, I have no idea how you keep making these good looking UI things.

Thank you!

Here's how I approached this problem:
1. Visualise it once or twice in my head
2. Draw a prototype on paper (original had 3 columns, left cargo, right ships, middle control buttons)
3. Implement the prototype in Starsector (minor adjustments made on the go)
4. Use the implementation in game, noting down rough edges (main sticking point was if storage had either only cargo or only ships, half of screen was useless)
5. Address shortcomings (come up with a pane idea, button that swaps between cargo and ship view)
6. Draw another sketch on paper and rework prototype in game
7. Apply some more usability fixes (e.g. add colors to buttons depending on state)
8. Clean up code and release

It helps out knowing what is possible (from Starsector API point of view) possible and not when it comes to UI.
At the same time it is not necessary knowledge, as you will learn and will need to adapt your grand design (point 2) to reality (point 3).

Would you consider adding a config option to make this a "readonly" mod, essentially disabling the courier part of the mod but leaving the storage display and filtering?

Having a version (or config) that serves only as a way to view what stuff you have and where would be a pure QoL mod without affecting the balance of exploration, serving a different niche with, I think, fairly minor coding effort (basically just need to hide some buttons?).

Done & done, "allowTransfer" boolean in "data/config/settings.json" will hide all transfer buttons. Will be released in a day or two with one more bugfix. Will be released when I finish the new functionality - Find Location. "Find Location" will work similarly to "Request cargo/ships", but instead of transferring will show (probably new intel tile) which storage (and what quantities) contains the desired items/ships.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2020, 10:47:27 AM by Jaghaimo »
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics - courier services
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2020, 01:14:58 PM »

First of all, you're clever. I was thinking about the ergonomics of this mod and that storage should be easier to access. Bam, you did it, 1.3.0 unifies our storage requests. Also all your mods so far blend in very well with the game. I look up to you.

Some notes on this logistics mod though:
How it works right now feels cheating.
Passing by a solar system with the need 500 transplutonics by this stupid overreaching hegemony government? No problem. Lemme do my thing on this tablet. Poof. Got your 500 transplutonics right here. Need 10000 food as well? No biggie, here you go. Oh, I've ran out of fuel at the other end of the sector. Whoosh, black magic, my tanks are full again.  :)
So irony aside I would have expected some delay that requires at least minimal planning on my side so the whole situation doesn't feel like I'm in a fairy tale. Deducting the stuff immediately I've sent away is fine, however getting it is unreal.
SPAZ2 approaches courier services in a simplistic way, some UI drawing appear that launch from the origin market and follows an intercepting vector until it reaches your fleet. The drawing resembles a ship and is untargetable, unmuggable and inviolable in every way but it still helps the immersion (and most importantly your movement also affects how long does it take to reach you).
Do you think something like that can be accomplished with your mod?
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Wispborne

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics - courier services
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2020, 02:28:26 PM »

Done & done, "allowTransfer" boolean in "data/config/settings.json" will hide all transfer buttons.

Super cool, thanks!
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.1.0 - courier services
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2020, 04:03:14 AM »

First of all, you're clever. I was thinking about the ergonomics of this mod and that storage should be easier to access. Bam, you did it, 1.3.0 unifies our storage requests. Also all your mods so far blend in very well with the game. I look up to you.
Thank you!

How it works right now feels cheating.
Passing by a solar system with the need 500 transplutonics by this stupid overreaching hegemony government? No problem. Lemme do my thing on this tablet. Poof. Got your 500 transplutonics right here. Need 10000 food as well? No biggie, here you go. Oh, I've ran out of fuel at the other end of the sector. Whoosh, black magic, my tanks are full again.
So irony aside I would have expected some delay that requires at least minimal planning on my side so the whole situation doesn't feel like I'm in a fairy tale. Deducting the stuff immediately I've sent away is fine, however getting it is unreal.

I totally agree. It is still planned, I am exploring my options on how to implement this. As per legacy version of this mod (version that added initial couriers):

This release adds a basic courier services completing the three key aspects of the mod: courier, warehousing, and information (services). I say basic, as originally I wanted to spawn the courier fleet to travel to the player (and either bring the cargo or pick it up). In the end this felt too tedious - having to wait for the courier to arrive in system (as it would be spawned at the nearest Stellar Logistics Branch) was not fun. As such the time-space aspect of couriers is omitted (for now) - I may revisit the ideal at later time (perhaps spawn the courier just outside player viewpoint?).

Next immediate version will add "allowTransfer" flag, which you can turn off thus making this purely informative.
It will also make locating cargo easier (button to toggle between unified view right now, or per storage).
After this version, I will work on realism (distance and time aspect to courier transport).

SPAZ2 approaches courier services in a simplistic way, some UI drawing appear that launch from the origin market and follows an intercepting vector until it reaches your fleet. The drawing resembles a ship and is untargetable, unmuggable and inviolable in every way but it still helps the immersion (and most importantly your movement also affects how long does it take to reach you).
Do you think something like that can be accomplished with your mod?

Yes, this is the plan. It will either spawn from your fleet (if you are sending stuff away, despawns when reached the target), or from markets it is being delivered (follows you until it meets you, then despawns).
There will be an intel tile which you can use to track the courier (distance from market / you, estimated arrival).


Edit: Version 1.2.0 released, as always see Changelog for details.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 12:37:22 AM by Jaghaimo »
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.1.0 - courier services
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2020, 07:04:09 PM »

Yes, this is the plan. It will either spawn from your fleet (if you are sending stuff away, despawns when reached the target), or from markets it is being delivered (follows you until it meets you, then despawns).
There will be an intel tile which you can use to track the courier (distance from market / you, estimated arrival).
Oof. Does that mean that the cuorier fleet can be destroyed by angry pirates and patrols rendering your cargo to either space dust or hijacked spoils?
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.2.0 - courier services
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2020, 02:03:59 AM »

Oof. Does that mean that the cuorier fleet can be destroyed by angry pirates and patrols rendering your cargo to either space dust or hijacked spoils?

It will depend on the technical possibilities. My initial plan is to spawn courier fleet as either belonging to independents (should make it "neutral" and pirates should ignore it, if not introduce a temp faction for couriers that has neutral standings with all in-game factions) or to player (so whoever hates the player will target your couriers). If both approaches work, I will add a flag in settings.json (canCouriersBeDestroyed: true/false).

Both approaches fit the lore behind couriers. Couriers could be their own factions (or indies service) and thus can afford to be neutral, as nobody will harm them anyway, and everybody wants their service. At the same time (non-neutral couriers) each courier could belong to the faction that ordered the service. Either way the plan is to make this configurable and let the player decide the desired behaviour.

Actually there is a third approach: destructible but insured. So if the courier fails to deliver your cargo you will be remunerated (credits equal to some percentage of value, or full value, or just lost cargo being reinstated in the storage it was taken from), so all you lose is time. Oh, decisions...

Who am I kidding about (decisions) anyway? Given time, everything will be implemented :D
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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.2.0 - courier services
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2020, 12:23:25 PM »

Oof. Does that mean that the cuorier fleet can be destroyed by angry pirates and patrols rendering your cargo to either space dust or hijacked spoils?

It will depend on the technical possibilities. My initial plan is to spawn courier fleet as either belonging to independents (should make it "neutral" and pirates should ignore it, if not introduce a temp faction for couriers that has neutral standings with all in-game factions) or to player (so whoever hates the player will target your couriers). If both approaches work, I will add a flag in settings.json (canCouriersBeDestroyed: true/false).

Both approaches fit the lore behind couriers. Couriers could be their own factions (or indies service) and thus can afford to be neutral, as nobody will harm them anyway, and everybody wants their service. At the same time (non-neutral couriers) each courier could belong to the faction that ordered the service. Either way the plan is to make this configurable and let the player decide the desired behaviour.

Actually there is a third approach: destructible but insured. So if the courier fails to deliver your cargo you will be remunerated (credits equal to some percentage of value, or full value, or just lost cargo being reinstated in the storage it was taken from), so all you lose is time. Oh, decisions...

Who am I kidding about (decisions) anyway? Given time, everything will be implemented :D

Can't wait  to figure out what are you gonna end up making.
I can easily see this mod being integrated into vanilla sometime.
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.2.0 - courier services
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2020, 01:18:30 PM »

New version is up. Balancing and usability.

Code
- Transfer contracts: periodically transfer all cargo and ships to a designated storage
- Add Stellar Logistics agents to markets with player owned storage
- Add ability to sign a transfer contract through an agent
- Show intel when the agent arrives at a market
- Show intel when ship or cargo transfer happens
- Disable courier transfer while travelling by default
- Enable courier transfer to a designated storage by default

Balancing

Add transfer contracts - automatic transport of all storage content to one designated location. Enabled by default.
Stellar Logistics agents will arrive at markets with player owned storages. Talk to them to sign a transfer contract.
Enable transfer contracts (by default) and disable transfers while travelling (by default).

Usability
After every transfer (manual or automatic) show short-lived intel with transfer details (location, quantity, cost).
Show short-lived intel with new agent arrival / storage inclusion into courier network.

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Szasz

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.2.0 - courier services
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2021, 10:09:15 AM »

Representatives are a good idea even if their current function is somewhat lacking as all they offer is consolidating every cargo you own with no regard to their nature. I like to keep military stuff (like ships and weapons) and commodities in two different storage locations mainly because there are so many different weapons that they tend to make a logistic sheet super long (and you gotta scroll to the end of the list to access the transfer button). Being able to talk to them after docking feels nice regardless.
Doing away couriers completely is rather harsh, could you make that available on markets? Not being able to tap into that during travel is fine, I can't help sending home any excess cargo I find otherwise, even if the cost makes me go bankrupt. The fee is balanced by the way, it gets very costly away from the core worlds(*), only the lack of visuals takes away the immersion so if that's not happening, being able to transfer goods at a market seems like a good compromise.
Also this is a hella costly for something as easy as picking up stuff and dropping them on the neighbouring planet that could be done by the player for free, it would just be annoying micro.


(*) However I noticed some irregularities with transfer costs when owning lots of storages. The fee bumps up with the number of storage locations owned and it gets out of control if you buy storage access at most core world markets. In the monthly report it is shown that the cargo is bouncing off every market close to the previous, adding a nice sum to the total transfer cost.
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IonDragonX

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.2.0 - courier services
« Reply #39 on: January 06, 2021, 12:02:53 PM »

The fee bumps up with the number of storage locations owned and it gets out of control if you buy storage access at most core world markets. In the monthly report it is shown that the cargo is bouncing off every market close to the previous, adding a nice sum to the total transfer cost.
Sounds like a normal, unscrupulous business practice. Like a taxi driver that will take you in circles to run up the fare.

BlackWater821

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.3.1 - courier services
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2021, 12:14:56 AM »

Hi, can you implement some options to disable "transfer while traveling" but still manage to request something in colony only?
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.3.1 - courier services
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2021, 12:15:20 PM »

Sorry for the late reply, I was taking some time off while waiting for new release.
I will revisit colony transfers in the next release. It will be a separate mod though, as there's no continuation between 0.9.1a and 0.95a saves.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 12:18:03 PM by Jaghaimo »
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sillynimbus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.3.1 - courier services
« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2021, 01:34:55 AM »

Is this ever going to get an update. It's so useful and it should honestly be in the base game already
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Lprsti99

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.3.1 - courier services
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2021, 02:58:26 PM »

Alpha release for 0.95a: https://github.com/jaghaimo/hypernet/releases/tag/1.7.0-a1

Do note that admin and officer search is broken. This mod is being reworked into one information-centric mod (combination of economy - former galmart, logistic - former stellics, and information - former hypernet intels) and will not get more updates.
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Jaghaimo

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Re: [0.9.1a] Stellar Logistics 1.3.1 - courier services
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2021, 01:52:22 PM »

Is this ever going to get an update. It's so useful and it should honestly be in the base game already
You can change the game version in mod_info.json or just use the successor mod - Stellar Networks.
I am locking this thread as no further work on Stellics is planned. Please direct all feedback in Stellar Networks thread.
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