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Author Topic: Best exploration fleet?  (Read 15395 times)

AnObeseBull

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Best exploration fleet?
« on: October 12, 2020, 04:47:03 PM »

I've been trying to do exploration missions with an onslaught battleship and carrier, an atlas freighter and Prometheus tanker but I always run out of supplies even when I pack 1000-1250, I lose money if it's not over 80000 credits so has anyone got any setups I can use to try and save some credits - thanks :)
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2020, 05:23:57 PM »

Don't bring a capital ship anywhere where you don't expect to need it (for combat). Big ships cost a ton of supplies and fuel to lug around. You can complete the exploration missions with a single dram (optimal if that is all you want to do), however, if you want to salvage debris/stations and survey along the way you will need lots of cargo and fuel ships. I recommend trying to bring just enough ships to protect yourself unless you are trying to do bounties. Exactly how many will depend on your piloting and outfitting skills, and you will need to experiment (and likely reload a few times) to figure that out for yourself.

In terms of ship choice, basically avoid low tech because they have elevated fuel costs compared to other ships. I also prioritize the apogee, odyssey and omen for campaign sensor bonuses as well as the shepherd for the salvaging rig and surveying bonus. I also recommend putting surveying equipment on civilian ships to make surveying free.

I would also recommend chaining as many missions and bounties as you can in one trip rather than doing missions one at a time. You should also explore surrounding systems for loot, you can make a lot more selling blueprints/rare loot (AI cores and stuff)/surveying data/random cargo than you will make from the missions usually. Skills that boost loot for salvaging also help a lot in that department.
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Retry

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2020, 05:42:38 PM »

Onslaughts are extremely logistically expensive ships to be exploring out in the fringes.  If you must have a capital ship for whatever reason, consider an Odyssey instead: Higher base burn (8 vs 7), nearly halved fuel consumption (8 vs 15), high resolution sensors for spotting things, much lower crew requirements (400 vs 750).  Fuel and cargo capacity are also marginally higher, quite a decent bonus.

Otherwise I wouldn't rely too heavily on capital-grade vessels for self-defense out in the fringes, cruisers and destroyers are likely more appropriate for this use case (and certainly much cheaper).  This goes for capital-grade freight too; both the Prometheus and the Atlas are fuel-guzzlers at 10/LY.  Think of the burn speed you want, and consider if you can substitute those with larger numbers of smaller ships.  2 Colossus or 3 Phaetons get you nearly as much cargo/fuel, but with less fuel consumption and a higher burn level with the proper hullmods.  Less time spent running around from place to place means less supplies consumed in transit.

As far as specific ship recommendations, the Apogee is basically the combat exploration cruiser.  High-res sensors and surveying equipment, excellent campaign-layer stats, and can hold its own in a fight.  If you have a few of those, you should be safe from most of the usual threats.  Shepherds are dirt cheap and have both surveying equipment and salvage gantries, always a nice thing to have.  Ventures are okay if you can't find or afford Apogees, but if you can you really should just be using them.
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Scorpixel

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2020, 05:52:37 PM »

Basically all of the above, there are some main points to remember:

-Always carry 100 heavy industry, plus some spare for repairing/building relays.

-Salvage/consumption skills are op, just beat some pirates and focus toward those before leaving the core worlds, soon you'll drown in fuel/supply and treasures. Also, +1/2 burn skill and Transverse jump can save you both time and life.

-Sensor range is determined by your 5 ships with the highest value, meaning large ships are naturally high and non-militarised/insulated civilian ships both deaf and loud, sensor package is a must have, sensor skill is non-negotiable.

-Drams and buffalos are cheap, have a high storage/consumption ratio, and are able to keep up with fast fleets, along available space for supplementary hullmods that you can stack in high numbers the more you bring, soon everything but the largest gas giants will cost 5 supplies. Beware of not reaching the ship limit or you won't be able to salvage derelicts.

-Defence comes last, getting caught shouldn't happen unless high risk was taken. Ancient guardians and most pirate wannabes can be dispatched with a small contingent of good exploration ships, anything bigger than that only mean you'll come back later with a proper fleet.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 05:55:15 PM by Scorpixel »
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SaberCherry

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2020, 06:15:48 PM »

I normally slap survey equipment and fighter bays on my cargo/fuel ships.  High-resolution sensors plus survey equipment can fit on a Mule since it doesn't need Militarized, and Pirate ones also have shielded holds, making it a decent utility freighter despite the supply cost.  Alternatively, Hegemony civilian ships are pre-militarized, allowing extra logistic mods (sensors, efficiency, militarized, augmented field drive, expanded cargo/tanks, survey module are all useful for exploration but you can only pick 2 excluding built-in ones).

Personally, after prioritizing logistic skill perks, I don't have much trouble with supplies/fuel, and I lug a Legion around with my 45-ship fleet.  Normally I find most of what I need salvaging.  Salvage gantry ships are helpful there.

Incidentally, Tarsuses and Phaetons are extremely efficient carriers, at 3DP and 2 fuel/LY for 1 wing, with decent armor and 4 small ballistic slots.  Crew costs 10 credits/month and converted hangars add 20 minimum crew, so there's that too, but they still compare well to a Condor.  You can give them Wasps or Broadswords to minimize crew losses.  In my current game I've been routinely deploying a Phaeton as a carrier and it's racked up an impressive amount of damage dealt (same with the Colossuses, but they are not really efficient enough to use that way).
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 09:02:58 PM by SaberCherry »
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TeeMee123

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2020, 07:05:57 PM »

I agree with everyone above's points.
Note that savage gantries have diminishing returns.
Stabilising cargo pods can be a good idea instead of hauling things back and forth, if you make a note of which system you left them in, and use their marker on the system map to get them back later.

Defence:
 Taking a monitor or two with you might help defend freighters, as it can absorb huge amounts of damage, and has burn speed 10, and low maintenance/fuel.
 The pirate Falcon has very high burn speed, and is a good ship overall for that kind of small fleet.
 Lashers might make a good ship for the fleet, with lower costs than high tech frigates.

Storage:
 Don't use the atlas, it's not very efficient.
 The Tarsus is a normal Buffalo but better defended with otherwise equal stats, same fuel and maintenance costs.
 The Buffalo (A), i.e. the hegemony auxiliary variant, has 1 higher burn speed than other buffalos at no cost.
 The Colossus is great, it has a lot of storage, and the best efficiency for fuel and supplies, but has a burn rate of 7 although this can be upped to 10.

In terms of hull mods, unstable injectors will help freighters escape trouble, expanded cargo holds will be useful, solar shielding will be great if you happen to find some valuable objects very close to a star (which does happen), reinforced bulkheads will be useful if you aren't save-scumming and lose some freighters, militarised subsystems improves burn rate and removes maintenance costs from civilian hulls + certain hull mods, augmented drive field improves burn rate further, surveying equipment is important for, well, surveying, efficiency overhaul reduces fuel/supply usage a bit.

The Venture is also burn rate 7 but can be boosted to 10 too, comes with very strong defences, surveying equipment, and 350 cargo space.
The Apogee is another strong cruiser with lots of space and defences and some special exploration hull mod, and already has very high burn rate.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 07:41:16 PM by TeeMee123 »
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DubTre6

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2020, 08:23:15 PM »

2 choices IMO:

1. You go whole hog with like 4 Atlas and Prometheus, most space per consumption that way. Additionally, many salvage rigs.

2. Or, you take like 6-7 Buffalo (A)'s and Phaetons, as with the first, many salvage rigs.

The reason behind the rigs is simple, more supplies to fuel the exploration!!!
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Daynen

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2020, 07:49:45 AM »

Yeah, going exploring with promes and atlases should ONLY be a thing once you've got the income to support them from colonies.  At that point you should probably have a couple ox tugs to get them up to a reasonable burn speed and you should be bringing a LOT more supplies and fuel.  Don't worry if you mostly fill your holds at the start of your trip; if you plan on bringing a big fleet you'll have room for loot fairly quickly.  Note that although fuel consumption is based on speed X ship consumption rate, supplies are based purely on time X ship rate, minus repairs, so the better your burn speed, the faster you burn fuel...but the less supplies you waste in transit.  Just keep an eye on your consumption as you travel; in time you'll develop an intuition for how much of each resource you need for a given trip.  Always bring a bit more than you think you need.

In my experience, putting any sort of combat equipment on logistics ships ends up being self-defeating; not only could you have given them more storage or a buff to your surveys or salvaging, but if I have to deploy a colossus or a prometheus, things have gone horribly, horribly wrong.  After I've seen to their logistical use with expanded holds, efficiency or whatever, I tend to give them unstable injectors, armor mods and such; anything that keeps them alive and helps them disengage faster is worth far more in my opinion than whatever minor contributions they might make to combat.

A note on salvage gantries: I'm pretty sure they only increase the amount of regular loot you find, such as metals, fuel and supplies; I don't think rare things like blueprints are affected.
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Megas

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2020, 09:05:31 AM »

Either I travel light and avoid combat, or I bring everything and crush anything that gets in my way.  For the former, a lone tanker will suffice if all I want to do is scout and do exploration missions.  For anything else, there is never enough capacity or combat power, and I bring a full-blown warfleet with some exploration ships.

Also, I like to bring some excess crew and other items so I can build a temporary pop-up colony on a whim.
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SaberCherry

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2020, 10:18:37 AM »

In my experience, putting any sort of combat equipment on logistics ships ends up being self-defeating; not only could you have given them more storage or a buff to your surveys or salvaging, but if I have to deploy a colossus or a prometheus, things have gone horribly, horribly wrong.  After I've seen to their logistical use with expanded holds, efficiency or whatever, I tend to give them unstable injectors, armor mods and such; anything that keeps them alive and helps them disengage faster is worth far more in my opinion than whatever minor contributions they might make to combat.
Phaetons are kind of a special case, because they only need to start full of fuel, then they become a liability, like early rocket stages that are discarded during launch.  Once you get to your destination and you're half-empty, it doesn't really matter if you lose one, and they're easy to replace once you get back to civilization.  Furthermore, +30% cargo for +50% cost is not hugely compelling to me on a civilian ship except when you're at the fleet size cap.  Anyway, carrier AI plays it pretty safe.  I have lost a Colossus this game, but not a Phaeton.

In terms of "What is the best exploration fleet", it would not surprise me if primarily Tarsus/Phaeton carriers plus a handful of frigate/destroyer escorts was optimal.  If you lose some, you have extras.

Quote
A note on salvage gantries: I'm pretty sure they only increase the amount of regular loot you find, such as metals, fuel and supplies; I don't think rare things like blueprints are affected.
Yep, but considering the OP is running out of fuel and supplies, that's exactly what he needs.  They have diminishing returns though so I don't bother with more than 1 (destroyer-size) in a fleet.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 10:25:48 AM by SaberCherry »
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robepriority

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2020, 05:05:42 PM »

Taking multiple survey ship/habitat/cache missions means that overall capacity ususally isn't a problem, just picking up and salvaging material will ususally have you good on fuel and supplies.

Doing a single planetary survey mission is going to run you negative no matter what.

Daynen

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 09:49:00 AM »

once you start getting into modding (don't worry; you will) there are some fantastic exploration options out there.  Keep an eye out for the Besenji; tons of sensor range, no sensor profile and it's a survey buff.  Zero combat potential, but fits snugly into your logistics slots for serious explorers.
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Arcagnello

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2020, 02:43:05 AM »

once you start getting into modding (don't worry; you will) there are some fantastic exploration options out there.  Keep an eye out for the Besenji; tons of sensor range, no sensor profile and it's a survey buff.  Zero combat potential, but fits snugly into your logistics slots for serious explorers.

I've actually went along the lines of that. I'm playing a Hazard Mining Incorporated playthrough with many mods and there's a small Freighter called copernic already coming with high resolution sensors. I slapped Exploration Refit on it (From HMI hullmods ) to make it purely about that sensor range life and I literally had a higher sensor range (1500 units) than detection range while at max burn speed from early to the first part of mid game.

Detection range only takes the 5 ships in your fleet with the best sensor range to calculate the final value, meaning that the best possible exploration fleet has 5 identical High detection range ships of  your choice.
The same applies to your own signature. It only takes two capitals and three tugs to wreck your chances of sneaking by everything for the rest of the game.

I would also suggest you to accept most ships with D-mods in your fleet unless they have increased maintenance if you can stomach it, the commander skill reducing maintenance costs for every dmod is great. My Junker ships get more ordinance points the more D-mods they get making them extremely supply efficient for long, loong exploration journeys. I've had times when I went exploring and came back with more supplies than I started with.

People have also said this before but both Atlas and Prometheus are the most inefficient cargo/fuel haulers in the whole game. Do not consider using them until late game.

The reason is simple: they have very low burn speed and you're going to need at least two or even three tugs to bring them to 20 burn speed. This will skyrocket the distance at wich you can be detected at and you do not want that I  the slightest. You could give them the hull mod increasing burn drive by 2 and militarized subsystems wich also increases it by 1 to not need a tug at all but then their cargo/fuel efficiency will take an even bigger dive.

On the other hand, Pirate Buffalos with shielded cargo holds and Phaetons are your very best friends. They've got much higher burn speeds allowing you to only use one hullmod to bring them to 10 burn speed, and the other one can be spent in either better cargo/fuel capacity or, the one I prefer, insulated engine assembly to sneak by almost everything and safely burn drive thru hyperspace with enough sensor range to detect any possible threats before they see you!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 02:46:35 AM by Arcagnello »
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CoverdInBees

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2020, 04:15:26 AM »

Good advice here, i'd just like to add that i usually *don't* bother with things like sensor skills, or stabilizing cargo.

Sure, you might miss some derelict every now and then, or lose out on the cargo, but the sector is big enough even if you choose small sector seed, you'll probably stop way before you've explored all of it. Spending time to make sure you find everything and haul it back is hardly worth it in your own time or ingame time, imo.

(Except maybe if it's your first serious attempt at exploring. Taking the sensor skills might be more worthwhile when you're still learning what the usual locations for high value spawns are. Beyond that i'd only take it if you also plan to do a lot of smuggling, for instance.)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 04:17:52 AM by CoverdInBees »
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Arcagnello

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Re: Best exploration fleet?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2020, 05:09:29 AM »

Good advice here, i'd just like to add that i usually *don't* bother with things like sensor skills, or stabilizing cargo.

Sure, you might miss some derelict every now and then, or lose out on the cargo, but the sector is big enough even if you choose small sector seed, you'll probably stop way before you've explored all of it. Spending time to make sure you find everything and haul it back is hardly worth it in your own time or ingame time, imo.

(Except maybe if it's your first serious attempt at exploring. Taking the sensor skills might be more worthwhile when you're still learning what the usual locations for high value spawns are. Beyond that i'd only take it if you also plan to do a lot of smuggling, for instance.)

I personally never cared about sensor minmaxing myself until I installed difficulty enchancing mods and started playing on Starfarer, Iron mode. It's actually a shame that nobody even bothers caring about them since the game is admittedly way too forgiving of mistakes sometimes.

The margin of your sensor range and your signature is basically a lifeline that makes or breaks the game when one wrong step can and will set you back immensely.

P.S: These are my two go-to difficulty enchancing mods if you also want to try them out. Kudos to both creators:
1) Second Wave Options 6.0 ( https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17086.0 ) by RustyCabbage
2) Ruthless Sector ( https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=15279.0 ) by Sundog

Both don't have compatibility issues with the 25+ other mods I'm running with.
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