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Author Topic: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it  (Read 11144 times)

Alex

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #75 on: October 11, 2020, 11:07:15 AM »

I'm also curious about the Shield Shunt because not being able to flicker shields for a torpedo better have some upside. Does it increase flux dissipation by some amount?

There are some other things skill-wise it synergizes with, but just in general it's not meant to be an equally-powerful alternative way to play. Shields are too much of a core mechanic for that, so this is always going to be more situational.
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shoi

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #76 on: October 11, 2020, 11:24:57 AM »

Yeah that's one thing, pirates have access to ALL of the base games missiles, which kinda feels wrong.

There is lore around the use and development of the Hammer-class Torpedo "The go-to strike weapon of the desperately under-equipped, the Hammer is most often employed by poor independent militias, Pirates, and especially the Luddic Path." yet pirates also have access to the best missiles that exist in the sector too.

pirates aren't a monolithic entity tho. there are different organizations with different levels of equipment
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Igncom1

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #77 on: October 11, 2020, 11:30:38 AM »

Yeah that's one thing, pirates have access to ALL of the base games missiles, which kinda feels wrong.

There is lore around the use and development of the Hammer-class Torpedo "The go-to strike weapon of the desperately under-equipped, the Hammer is most often employed by poor independent militias, Pirates, and especially the Luddic Path." yet pirates also have access to the best missiles that exist in the sector too.

pirates aren't a monolithic entity tho. there are different organizations with different levels of equipment

In game they may as well be a generic 'rebels' factions as they don't even commit piracy unless by accident.

They have as much uniformity as the hegmeony in their current depiction. Just a different fleet comp and most of the same exact weapons.
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Goumindong

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #78 on: October 11, 2020, 01:46:37 PM »

It wasn't armour regen, it was hull regen.
In the current version, it's possible to exploit Field Repairs 2 and Damage Control 2 to repair some armour and hull damage between deployments.

That isn't an exploit. Its intended such that armor ships can be effective in multiple deployments. Its pretty integral to making them work as well since otherwise the repair costs are huge
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Megas

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #79 on: October 11, 2020, 01:51:04 PM »

Pirates and Independents function almost exactly like monolithic major factions, despite the lore saying otherwise.  Pirates behave more like a hegemony than the Hegemony.  Hegemony is yet another civilian faction wanting for the pirates to kill them unless high plains drifting player saves them from the zombie pirates.  Pirates are Ur-Quan/Kohr-Ah, and all major factions plus Indies are like ZFP.

As for regenerating armor, I would use it on ships as powered armor (as done in other games) in which armor and shields are one-and-the-same.  Naturally such ships would be shieldless.
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SCC

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #80 on: October 11, 2020, 02:11:20 PM »

That isn't an exploit. Its intended such that armor ships can be effective in multiple deployments. Its pretty integral to making them work as well since otherwise the repair costs are huge
I'm not sure if you understood what I meant. Mind the timestamp. I leave the battlefield with 2451 HP, come back with 4838 HP and get some armour back as well. https://youtu.be/SecJjpCirtg?t=3615
I don't think this was intended, because it promotes multiple deployment battles, which aren't supported otherwise (in fact, Alex recently removed ammo replenishment between deployments), even if they are the optimal way to fight big battles (which also got bigger than Alex wanted to have them).

Goumindong

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #81 on: October 11, 2020, 04:18:01 PM »

Pretty sure that is intended. Your CR timer also resets as an example
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Retry

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #82 on: October 11, 2020, 04:42:00 PM »

I'm 99% sure that's intended, by the description it repairs you partially after combat ends, which would be in-between engagements.
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Wyvern

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #83 on: October 11, 2020, 10:12:28 PM »

If you've got the time, I'd suggest going and taking a look at the mechanics used by the Interstellar Imperium's Armor Package hull mod. It's a very nice 'heavy armor' type of thing, and in particular, feels (to me) to be all-but-mandatory for phase ships. (Not that there are many phase ships in the II line-up, but there are some - and they work a lot better with Armor Package than without.)

Honestly, I'd really like to see something similar as an option for vanilla ships - again, especially for phase ships.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.

Megas

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #84 on: October 12, 2020, 06:59:55 AM »

That isn't an exploit. Its intended such that armor ships can be effective in multiple deployments. Its pretty integral to making them work as well since otherwise the repair costs are huge
I'm not sure if you understood what I meant. Mind the timestamp. I leave the battlefield with 2451 HP, come back with 4838 HP and get some armour back as well. https://youtu.be/SecJjpCirtg?t=3615
I don't think this was intended, because it promotes multiple deployment battles, which aren't supported otherwise (in fact, Alex recently removed ammo replenishment between deployments), even if they are the optimal way to fight big battles (which also got bigger than Alex wanted to have them).
Armor repairs between rounds?

I would have interpreted after "combat ends" as after the (multi-round) encounter when the losing side is annihilated or driven off, not after a single round.  I would not consider time between rounds as combat being over as both sides are still in the middle of a combat encounter.

"Combat ends" needs better clarification.

P.S.  With armor repairs between rounds.  I can start a round, not deploy anything, full retreat, which causes both sides to pass the round (enemy does not deploy until after you do), repeat until ships are repaired, then resume the fight.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 07:03:38 AM by Megas »
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Retry

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Re: There should be some ways to make having high armor worth it
« Reply #85 on: October 12, 2020, 11:51:34 AM »

P.S.  With armor repairs between rounds.  I can start a round, not deploy anything, full retreat, which causes both sides to pass the round (enemy does not deploy until after you do), repeat until ships are repaired, then resume the fight.
Won't work.  You only repair the damage you've taken on that round.  If you full retreat without deploying anything, the damage you've taken on that round is 0, so you would heal exactly 0 damage for the next round.
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