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Author Topic: Utility weapons  (Read 1181 times)

Gothars

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Utility weapons
« on: October 07, 2020, 07:46:18 AM »

I really liked the introduction of logistics hullmods, as it allows to (role-)play something other than combat focused fleets. How about extending that logic to some weapons?

For example:
Mining blaster - increase loot found druing scavenging
Mining laser - decreases frequency of asteroid impacts on the drive bubble (as per its description)
Hellbore - decreases fuel required for orbital bombardment
Thumper - decreases maintenance supplies/month of the ship it is installed on (as per its description)

Such utility weapons could only be installed/switched when docked. They'd also solves some other problems:

- their utility function gives another reason to use this weapons past early game and thus increases weapon variety
- explains the existence of mining weapons in a world in which asteroid mining seems to be virtually nonexistent
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 08:52:15 AM by Gothars »
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The game was completed 8 years ago and we get a free expansion every year.

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SonnaBanana

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2020, 08:08:17 AM »

Doesn't make sense about the Thumper, the ships with least amount of maintenance should be ships without weapons. Weapons shouldn't reduce maint. costs.
But otherwise, I think this is interesting.

PCL - Same as Hellbore,-decreases fuel required for orbital bombardment
Tachyon Lance - Increase sensor range of equipped ship.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2020, 08:10:27 AM by SonnaBanana »
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SafariJohn

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2020, 08:55:11 AM »

I would flip your Mining Blaster and Mining Laser functions. M.Lasers are precise and low damage - great for cutting things up without breaking them, terrible at blowing up an asteroid right before it hits you.
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Thaago

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2020, 08:59:23 AM »

This is an interesting idea! It could also be extended to a couple of fighter wings; mining pods come to mind as similar to the mining weapons, but there could also be "sensor drones" to increase campaign sensor range and/or decrease survey costs, "repair tenders" to have the fleet repair slightly faster from battle damage (with corresponding increased supply cost, no discount), etc
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SaberCherry

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2020, 05:23:10 PM »

This is an interesting idea.  But it would really be irritating to be unable to equip/remove certain weapons except when docked.  I'd rather have a different system to prevent gaming, such as a delayed impact or similar.
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Retry

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2020, 05:55:08 PM »

Doesn't out-of-market refits already reduce your combat readiness and ultimately cost supplies?  If your goal is to avoid more asteroids or just to get a little bit more out of salvaging, it doesn't seem like it'd be terribly practical to swap your weapons in and out just for that purpose.
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SaberCherry

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2020, 08:03:11 PM »

Doesn't out-of-market refits already reduce your combat readiness and ultimately cost supplies?  If your goal is to avoid more asteroids or just to get a little bit more out of salvaging, it doesn't seem like it'd be terribly practical to swap your weapons in and out just for that purpose.
I can't really figure this out, it seems like sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.  I've definitely seen both situations occur during a midflight refit.  I thought there was some rule regarding exact numbers of OP changing, or similar, but I just try to refit, then undo if it's going to cost CR.  Except when I salvage a wreck, in which case often want to either mothball it or give it weapons.
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SafariJohn

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2020, 08:11:42 PM »

Adding weapons seems to be free IME, while removing weapons costs CR. Adding hullmods seems to cost CR down to a minimum, while removing them costs CR.

It is really opaque how much things will cost, and the UI indicating the change is not very noticeable even if you are looking for it.

I think it would be nice if it were a simple rule like "pay one deployment's worth to refit". Something clear-cut and easy to remember.
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Histidine

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2020, 09:03:30 PM »

AFAIK: If your CR is low enough (threshold seems to be above the 40% from Field Repairs 1) then adding stuff is free. Removing stuff always costs CR. The cost is proportional to how much is changed.
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Morrokain

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2020, 09:23:00 PM »

AFAIK: If your CR is low enough (threshold seems to be above the 40% from Field Repairs 1) then adding stuff is free. Removing stuff always costs CR. The cost is proportional to how much is changed.

Yeah IIRC that is so you can immediately equip a newly salvaged ship with weapons in your storage, but can't optimize loadouts in between fights (because that would be equally parts optimal and tedious).
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Gothars

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2020, 02:52:56 AM »

I would flip your Mining Blaster and Mining Laser functions. M.Lasers are precise and low damage - great for cutting things up without breaking them, terrible at blowing up an asteroid right before it hits you.

I Imagine a laser might vaporize an asteroids surface, and the resulting flow of gases would push it out of the way.

This is an interesting idea! It could also be extended to a couple of fighter wings; mining pods come to mind as similar to the mining weapons, but there could also be "sensor drones" to increase campaign sensor range and/or decrease survey costs, "repair tenders" to have the fleet repair slightly faster from battle damage (with corresponding increased supply cost, no discount), etc

Yeah, I like it. In combat those repair/sensor drones might serve the same function, they'd be more a expensive automated repair unit/ITU. But you could target allied ships and send them to them!

If your goal is to avoid more asteroids or just to get a little bit more out of salvaging, it doesn't seem like it'd be terribly practical to swap your weapons in and out just for that purpose.

But the reverse is true. If you optimized your fleet for utility and now face a difficult opponent, you might feel forced to switch all your utility weapons and then wait passively until your CR has recovered.
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Munashe

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2020, 07:53:36 AM »

I fully support this, for me, it adds a lot of flavor the game. Whichever mod adds mining and mining strength to some weapons (Nexerellin?) already gives me a taste of it, and I'd like more. Utility ships make fleets feel more grounded, and all these ship specific traits add more interesting considerations when choosing which to buy and fill out my fleet with.
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rokenx2

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2020, 09:13:04 AM »

that could be cool... what about a tractor beam that trys to grab onto and slow ships could be a medium laser slot then its out of combat ability is increase loot recovery after battle
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2020, 10:11:51 AM »

Anybody who's ever played an RPG where there are items to affect shop prices knows how incredibly annoying it is to shuffle items back and forth just for shopping, and that's exactly what this would do. Making people play inventory managament for minor economy bonuses is awful.

Alex has been very good about recognizing the problem with giving people mindnumbingly boring but slightly more efficient options and actively eliminated them, so I doubt something like this would make it in the game.
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Wyvern

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Re: Utility weapons
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2020, 02:59:50 PM »

Anybody who's ever played an RPG where there are items to affect shop prices knows how incredibly annoying it is to shuffle items back and forth just for shopping, and that's exactly what this would do. Making people play inventory managament for minor economy bonuses is awful.
So don't make anything that gives bonuses to shopping? I don't think any of the suggestions even did that - it was all stuff that'd matter out in the world.

I'd definitely be in favor of something like this, though, especially if it includes some new weapons that are more utility than weapon. Let us get some use out of the weapon slots on civilian ships that will never see combat!

How about even adding some combat-utility 'weapons'? Maybe a large energy slot 'sensor jammer' that can stack with the ECM hullmod, or... hm. No, actually, I'm not coming up with any other ideas that seem like they'd be reasonable for combat utility. Ah well, perhaps someone else will think of something.
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Wyvern is 100% correct about the math.
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