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Author Topic: How to counter Carrier spam?  (Read 5073 times)

Warnoise

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How to counter Carrier spam?
« on: September 13, 2020, 09:17:46 PM »

So I am fighting Tri-Tachyon, and one of their invasion forces has only carriers. 5 Astrals, the rest are assortment of Heron and Dovers.

For the life of me my fleet can't even approach them. Their Astrals just stay in the back demolishing my onslaughts with their bombers and interceptors. I tried to change the loadouts, but it was fruitless since my ships always end up overwhelmed.

Is there a decent strategy to counter mass carriers?
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 09:36:16 PM by Warnoise »
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Bob69Joe

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2020, 09:39:51 PM »

Cheap phase ships are a good distraction but will quickly turn fodder inevitably. The AI will randomly decide to unphase on top a mass of bombs.
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Thaago

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2020, 10:12:48 PM »

Onslaughts are some of the best choices for facing massed fighers actually. Load up on tons of dual flak, the Integrated Point Defense AI hullmod, Devastators in the side mounts, and the combat skill that grants +50% damage to fighters/missiles. Its not quite immune to fighters, but its darn close. You'll want to support them with interceptors - Sparks/Wasps/Talons in descending order of goodness (and availability).

The biggest issue with fighting enemy carriers however is AI: your own ships will be very unwilling to press. Using "Full Assault" helps, as does assigning eliminate orders. The best bet though is to just hop in an Onslaught yourself and burn drive through the enemy while cackling madly.
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Warnoise

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2020, 11:31:15 PM »

Onslaughts are some of the best choices for facing massed fighers actually. Load up on tons of dual flak, the Integrated Point Defense AI hullmod, Devastators in the side mounts, and the combat skill that grants +50% damage to fighters/missiles. Its not quite immune to fighters, but its darn close. You'll want to support them with interceptors - Sparks/Wasps/Talons in descending order of goodness (and availability).

The biggest issue with fighting enemy carriers however is AI: your own ships will be very unwilling to press. Using "Full Assault" helps, as does assigning eliminate orders. The best bet though is to just hop in an Onslaught yourself and burn drive through the enemy while cackling madly.

I tried to do that actually, but they have a fighter group that disable your ship when they got the hull. So when I rush with my onslaught to the enemy Astrals, my ship just gets disabled then I get absolutely demolished by a rain of missiles. :(
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 11:45:47 PM »

What can really help - shield tanks. Those Monitors able to absorb huge amount of bombs/torpedoes. Paragons are even tougher, but too slow to catch those Astrals. In any case both required fast and aggressive allies to eliminate targets.
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Grievous69

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2020, 11:50:35 PM »

Tempest swarm counters everything in the game.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2020, 11:58:34 PM »

Tempest swarm counters everything in the game.

Even drover/spark spam?  :o
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Grievous69

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2020, 12:00:37 AM »

Probably not, but you're not gonna have AI with a fleet of Drovers with Sparks. And sure you could fight fire with fire but say goodbye to your framerate then.
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RustyCabbage

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2020, 12:19:19 AM »

The AI stumbles when faced with overwhelming numbers of fighters, so one of the more important things to do is to set your fleet aggression to Aggressive or even Reckless (in the doctrine tab in Commands). Otherwise, Eliminate orders will help plenty.

When it comes to actually killing the fighters here are some options:
- The Onslaught with Devastators and (Dual) Flak as Thaago noted. If you're having problems with EMP fighters consider adding Automated Repair Unit and/or Resistant Flux Conduits.
- The Doom, which kills fighters by the dozen with its Mine Strike ship system.
- The Proximity Charge Launcher, which takes a medium missile slot but is the premier anti-fighter option. Use them liberally until the fighters are struggling with replacement.
- More interceptors. Wasps are great, Sparks are even better.

Igncom1

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2020, 01:28:08 AM »

A bad take but, Conquests with Locust missiles/missile mods?

You'll run out eventually but never-ending swarms of anti-fighter missiles might give you the time you need to close and kill the carriers. I'm not sure but those medium side missile mounts could be used for proxy mines for deleting fighter blobs.
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Mordodrukow

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2020, 06:27:59 AM »

Guys, may be i got it wrong, but TS have no opportunity to change fleet composition, because he need to face invading fleets right now.

Imo, this battle is about endurance: who has better flux stats and bigger PPT wins. So, yeah: maximum flak, try to gather enemy fighters in one place to let flaks AoE more. And maybe use mod that increases PPT and just wait.

Also, if there any friendly stations, the easiest way is to wait till enemy attack it, then engage for help.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2020, 06:48:19 AM »

Guys, may be i got it wrong, but TS have no opportunity to change fleet composition, because he need to face invading fleets right now.

If so, there are cheat: decrease battle size to 200. That will make enemy to use no more than 120 DP(no more than 2 astrals at the same time). Significant nerf to fighter spam amount. That also makes impact to player's DP, but usually it's a clear buff if you are decent pilot.
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shrek_luigi

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2020, 11:01:24 AM »

two or three centurions set to escort duty can make short work of both shielded & unshielded fighters with relative ease. they have great PD-coverage, a big OP budget for a frigate, and if you load them up with predominantly ballistic-PD stuff then you'll have a pretty huge surplus of flux for tanking shots from larger ships. the extra OP can go toward stuff like Hardened Shields & Subsystems to keep them on the field for longer, Unstable Injector to allow them to help them close the gap quicker when it comes time to wrap things up/chase ships down in retreats, Frontal Shield for da beeg 360 shield coverage.....its a great ship!!

360 shield coverage--or at least 120 omnishield + accelerated shields--helps a lot to tank shots from fighter swarms, while ships with frontal-shields of 180 degrees or less can be sorta risky.

some interceptors of your own can help as well.  8)
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Hiruma Kai

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2020, 12:21:35 PM »

I tried to do that actually, but they have a fighter group that disable your ship when they got the hull. So when I rush with my onslaught to the enemy Astrals, my ship just gets disabled then I get absolutely demolished by a rain of missiles. :(

Automated Repair Unit, Resistant Flux Conduits, Armored Weapon Mounts may help with that.  If you're concerned about weapon turn speed due to Armored Weapon mounts, also throw on Advanced turret gyros, but probably won't be necessary.

Overall, those 3 hull mods will get you half damage from Ion weapons, half time repairs, and doubled effective hit points for weapons.  If you're going heavy on flak on an Onslaught, that shouldn't be too bad of a hull mod investment. Certainly Integrated Point Defense AI and Integrated Targeting Unit (or Dedicated targeting Core) are must haves.  If you don't have the Integrated Point Defense AI, then flares from broadswords and the like are just going to shut your defenses down.

The Ion Beam on Xyphos should only have a range of 1000.  You could put 2-3 Hypervelocity drivers on the 3 front most mounts which combined with ITU or DTC, which will out range them.  You should be able to target them and take them out, reducing the amount of ion damage coming in.  They're respawn, but hopefully not too fast.  Given the Onslaught already comes with Thermal Pulse cannons, which are enough to deal with an Astral's armor, you probably just need a Devastator in Front.  Probably just put single Flak in the side large slots.  Vulcans in all the smalls.

You can either skip missiles, or maybe throw Proximity Charge Launchers on.  Those... Are surprisingly effective against massed fighters.

What skills and ships do you have available?  Do you have all the hull mod and weapon access you might need?
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Modo44

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Re: How to counter Carrier spam?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2020, 11:46:15 PM »

1. More carrier spam of your own.
2. Lots of PD, fast turning medium guns (e.g. Glowtusk or Glaux from Diable Avionics), and swarmer-type missiles on your ships.
2. A dedicated PD Paragon. As one streamer said, it just solves so many issues.
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