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Author Topic: a few suggestions  (Read 2435 times)

rokenx2

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a few suggestions
« on: September 09, 2020, 08:27:18 PM »

mainly i think the game really needs an Import/Export system i know there's a mod but none of them actually import ships/level and inventory and the one that dose anything right now ungp gives me extra skill points that kinda ruins it for me (not trying to become op past what the base game intends) .... i don't see why we cant just do a simple import/export allowing people to bring everything over to a new sector i get why we wouldn't be able to bring our settlements but i think there should be an abandoned station at the starting zone that all of your imported stuff is thrown in like inventory from settlements and such.... this would be a huge step towards making the game more re playable and it would allow you to take your fleet/character you worked hard for into say another friends sector to check it out by using their sector code... or in the event you get a trash sector... well you can hunt for greener pastures elsewhere without having to utterly start from scratch the people that dont like this idea... doesn't matter they just don't have to use it its that simple i think every game should have this feature for those who want more replay ability

Ai improvement.... i donno about you guys but holy crap the AI never follows my orders its like there's no point giving them i tell a ship to retreat and more than half the time they just suicide into the hostile ships.... would be nice if they actually followed orders (and most of my officers are stable/timid)

fleet sizes based on deployment points not a flat 30 i think this could add a lot more fun game play as i feel forced to always use monster ships late game with a handful of medium/small ships to squeeze in those last DP for each encounter i think it would be fun to be able to make a large enough small ship fleet to swarm and still have reinforcements and replacements for a bit more sustainability


a few balancing things i think could be handy like the damn Hyperion yah its good for a frigate but the costs are comical mostly the deployment costs 15 when i can get frigs that do better in some ways for a meer 4 DP (personally id suggest dropping dp down to 10 lowering daily cost a wee bit) still high but a great "light cavalry" chasing down routed foes sorta ship

personally id add a weee bit of flux distribution to the onslaught  as theres little point to use its large slots for large weapons when it overheats so fast it will stop firing them quickly... i favor just putting mediums in its large slots and using MG spam as its too hot

Legion ... im quite fond of the Legion but for 5 more dp the Astral dose way more my suggestion is drop the DP to 35 personaly as its still good... just.. not quite 40 dp good

Odyssey i think its a great battle cruiser especially early on getting this early feels unfair even... but late game costing 45 DP makes it... a bit limp also its a battle cruiser half the point of a battle cruiser is it should be a bit cheaper so id suggest dropping that to 40 as i can see it being 50/50 with the current onslaught who can at least hold its own against a radiant where this guy just gets melted more often than not

atlas mkii i think this ships fairly good where it is DP wise but it just lacks the OP to really make use of all of its hard points... personally id suggest raising the dp a little then adding a modest bit of OP

also would love to see a pass on fighter balancing as quite a few just seem not worth using at all and that's a shame as many look bad ass

other things id like to see is merely more ships and more weapons and more ship hull mods im addicted to just constantly altering my ships trying to tweak everything into perfection
 and more choices would ensure id be addicted for years to come i think some mods have done it before but perhaps negative ship hull mods to add OP in order to further mod ships could be amazingly fun and addicting

also as the hegemony have their 14th battlegroup special ship mod id love to see special versions for each factions favored ships like tri-tachyon perhaps having a version of some energy based ships that say... incrase energy weapon range or fire rate at the cost of shield/damage ratio going for a glass cannon approach in counter to hegemony tank approach or luddic church ship versions who focus on missile weapons or something

perhaps being able to tag ships as "non combat" that makes them only cost half of the space in your fleet that a combat ship would
 
also adding a battle salvage flag to a ship captured so it dosent take up fleet space but dosent add anything but allows you to drag it back to sell it would be helpful late game



im sure i have a million more ideas but i cant think of more right now and im sure my rambling is hard enough to read already..... thanks if your still reading i rarely take the effort to type so much but i have spent a Lot of time on this game over the last year or so and still am not bored just hoping for new toys soonish =P
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WesternFail

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2020, 08:15:24 AM »

Being honest with your list of suggestions, I think you have the right idea in many areas, but you seem to have taken them in the completely wrong direction.
The Hyperion buff is probably needed,

AI orders are never intended to be 100% set orders they are suppose to carry out, they prioritize their own safety over anything else.

Fleet size can be changed in the files.

Flux buff to the Onslaught would be nice, not sure if that's needed tho.

Why are you calling to buff a thing that is perfectly fine, the Legion, instead of nerfing a thing that is overpowered, the Astral.

Where are you even finding an oddy early on? Its literally one of the rarest ships in the game. And it costing 45 DP is perfectly fine, it can do way more work than its dp suggests.

Atlas mk2, have you considered, not putting anything in the mediums?

Balance pass on fighters is the right idea, balance pass on fighters to make them stronger is not the right idea, fighters need to be nerfed than anything else, there is a reason why carrier spam is such cancer in game.

I don't have an issue with special fleets or more weapons more more hullmods. Story points in the next update might be what you are looking for.

I don't think that's how ship slots work, you can't just add a tag to a ship to make it cost 0.5 of a slot, and again, you can just change the max fleet size in settings.

Same with the last suggestion, you can change the max fleet size in settings.
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Grievous69

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2020, 08:44:12 AM »

Atlas mk2, have you considered, not putting anything in the mediums?
So you don't think the ship is OP starved but you suggested leaving FOUR MEDIUM slots completely empty, not even downsized, just empty. This isn't even a case as with high tech ships where you don't wanna fill all of the small energy mounts, you literally don't have points here for a "normal" loadout using all mounts, nothing fancy or elite. Tbf designing a capital worth 24 DP was weird to begin with, so now it's just stuck in the weird spot where it's still a cool ship and people like the theme of it, but it's so horribly bad and not worth using it ever. Personally I'd just increase the DP and have it be an actual menacing pirate capital. Instead of a Conquest MkII Pinata edition (it dies faster than cruisers I swear).

Agree with the rest of your counter points to OP.

One thing worth noting is that we're probably gonna have smaller fleets in the future as Alex intends to tone down things a bit, so the fleet size cap shouldn't really be an issue. At least that's the plan I think.
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Megas

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2020, 09:02:42 AM »

Fleet size by deployment (or rather, logistics or fleet points) was a thing before the 0.8a releases.  Back then, it had other nuances like crew Tetris levels and they added to Logistics, and fighters-as-ships (i.e., took fleet slots instead of carrier bays).  One disadvantage of that system was fleet composition - you could haul only a few capitals or dozens of frigates, and that assumed max Leadership skills.  If you had no Leadership, you could have five frigates or maybe one battlecruiser.  Combat skills were overpowered, but they had to be for the no Leadership path to be viable.  (Then came 0.65, fast XP gain, and food runs that let the player get nearly all the skills.)

Hyperion is overpriced and has too little PPT (or too high CR deployment cost).  Also, anything Hyperion can do, so can Afflictor for less cost, and maybe faster too.

Agreed with Onslaught.  It has too little dissipation.  It cannot support high-end heavy weapons like Conquest can.  It does not help that AI loves to flux itself out with built-in TPCs (they may be flux efficient, but firing the whole two clips still builds up flux too fast.)  Legion is also similarly flux starved.  If there is one or two changes I like to see in Legion, it is 1) more dissipation and 2) either free ITU or Expanded Deck Crew so it has more OP.

As for Astral, I think its overall fighter power is fine.  If it stays as it is, then maybe raise its DP to 50 or something.  However, the biggest problem with Astral is weapons are pointless on it.  The best loadout is six high-end bombers, maybe a few PD beams, and rest of OP into flux and hullmods.  I want Astral armed with weapons to be good again.  It should be able to put three heavy blasters on its left and chew up anything smaller than a capital like in the pre-0.8 days, and still haul a bunch of good fighters (i.e., no pods or Talons only).  It either cannot do that anymore, or it is sub-optimal to unarmed six bomber spam.  Modern Astral is a bomber factory.

Odyssey can be strong, but it is also a pain.  The best brawling loadouts tend to leave too many mounts empty.  Also, AI likes to suicide with Plasma Burn.  45 DP seems a bit much compared to the other non-Paragon capitals.  As for getting it early, a lucky blueprint drop from salvage or tech-mining is all it takes.  If not, there is always blueprint raids at Culann in Hybrasil.

While I would like more OP Atlas II to fill its mounts (I think too many empty mounts is a crime), I do not think it matters much because it is awful.

Fighters cost too much OP.  Carriers do not have enough OP left to support guns after they get fighters, so it is better to not use guns at all and focus hard on fighters for dedicated carriers, which is their job.  (Legion is a true hybrid, and Odyssey is a big Shrike that kept its bays from its early days.)  This is the main reason why I think the old fighters-as-ships is superior to fighters-as-weapons.  I used to think fighters-as-weapons was a good idea, until I saw how it wrecked carrier loadouts.  If there is any change to fighters I like to see, it is revert them to pre-0.8a.  If not, then anything to make armed carriers good again.  (Armed carriers possible only with pods or Talons do not count.)

More ships?  What I like to see...
* Mass produced ship that can point and use dumb-fire missiles effectively.  Maybe the new midline not-Aurora next release will do that?
* Phase hauler.  Phase ships have atrocious capacity (less than conventional warships), making pure phase fleet not practical.  Could be a capital.
* Maybe:  high-tech carrier smaller than capital, even if it is a hypothetical Heron(TT).

More weapons?  What I like to see...
* Better ballistic medium HE with at least 800 range.  Only options are low-end Heavy Mortar or low-powered sniper weapon Mauler.
* Useful small assault energy weapon.  IR Pulse Laser is not good enough.
* Medium energy beam weapon that is an actual upgrade from small beams.
* Better anti-shield medium energy weapon than Pulse Laser.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2020, 11:12:05 AM »

As for Astral, I think its overall fighter power is fine.  If it stays as it is, then maybe raise its DP to 50 or something.  However, the biggest problem with Astral is weapons are pointless on it.  The best loadout is six high-end bombers, maybe a few PD beams, and rest of OP into flux and hullmods.  I want Astral armed with weapons to be good again.  It should be able to put three heavy blasters on its left and chew up anything smaller than a capital like in the pre-0.8 days, and still haul a bunch of good fighters (i.e., no pods or Talons only).  It either cannot do that anymore, or it is sub-optimal to unarmed six bomber spam.  Modern Astral is a bomber factory.

Odyssey can be strong, but it is also a pain.  The best brawling loadouts tend to leave too many mounts empty.  Also, AI likes to suicide with Plasma Burn.  45 DP seems a bit much compared to the other non-Paragon capitals.  As for getting it early, a lucky blueprint drop from salvage or tech-mining is all it takes.  If not, there is always blueprint raids at Culann in Hybrasil.

Astral with 3 heavy blasters ?!?!?!? That's a huge amount of flux generation (2160 flux/sec). Your expectations for dedicated carriers are way too high. Paragon maxes out at 1250+600+150 = 2k dissipation (minus shield upkeep so not even that high). I think your memory of old carriers is mixed with your memory of old skills. The astral being able to use 3x HB comfortably with 2 large missile slots and a top tier shield would make it a pretty solid capital warship... ignoring 6 fighter bays and an amazing fighter system.

It seems like you just want the ship to have everything and be very overpowered (use good fighters and the best fighter system and have good weapons and max flux stats and good hullmods and.....). The whole point of the ship is to be the extreme of carrier specialization (most bays, best system) meaning it should be worse at everything else than any other capital ship. You don't get to specialize without giving up on other things. If you want a battle carrier, the legion exists. IMO, astral should have a little more OP, or a Hullmod that reduces fighter OP cost, and then a worse shield and higher DP cost to compensate. Astral is the most dedicated carrier, it should not be good at brawling.

RE:Odyssey
45 DP is a steal for a player control odyssey and a bit much for AI controlled odyssey. I think the AI should be improved, and then the DP cost should be reevaluated. As of now, I think 45 DP is a fine 'average' between the value as a playership and as an AI ship.
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Megas

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2020, 12:31:16 PM »

Astral with 3 heavy blasters ?!?!?!? That's a huge amount of flux generation (2160 flux/sec). Your expectations for dedicated carriers are way too high. Paragon maxes out at 1250+600+150 = 2k dissipation (minus shield upkeep so not even that high). I think your memory of old carriers is mixed with your memory of old skills. The astral being able to use 3x HB comfortably with 2 large missile slots and a top tier shield would make it a pretty solid capital warship... ignoring 6 fighter bays and an amazing fighter system.

It seems like you just want the ship to have everything and be very overpowered (use good fighters and the best fighter system and have good weapons and max flux stats and good hullmods and.....). The whole point of the ship is to be the extreme of carrier specialization (most bays, best system) meaning it should be worse at everything else than any other capital ship. You don't get to specialize without giving up on other things. If you want a battle carrier, the legion exists. IMO, astral should have a little more OP, or a Hullmod that reduces fighter OP cost, and then a worse shield and higher DP cost to compensate. Astral is the most dedicated carrier, it should not be good at brawling.
Then what are the mounts for?  (Don't say bonus OP like Alex, that is a cop-out.)  If guns are too much to ask, then the mounts should be erased from the ship.  Otherwise, it should be able to brawl, albeit not as well as a pure warship.  That is, if Onslaught or even a hybrid like Odyssey charges up, Astral should be dead, or at least be at a significant disadvantage.  Otherwise, Astral should squash whatever small fry with pea shooters drive up to it.

While I like high-power, I want carriers to use guns - and support good fighters too - like they used to.  They were not the best, but they were capable like combat freighters were.  (Mules, Gemini, and pre 0.8a Venture were capable brawlers, even if worse than dedicated ships.)  Now, carriers are like dedicated logistics ships like Atlas/Prometheus, who cannot (or should not) fight at all (outside of auto-resolve), except they haul fighters instead of personnel/cargo/fuel, because they need their OP for fighters, and after they are done with that, there is not enough OP left to properly support guns.  If that is what carriers will remain as, then better for the sprites to be updated and have their mounts rubbed out.

Astral being able to do all the feats you mention does not mean that much when most other ships have their own high-powered shenanigans.

Before v0.8a, Astral could brawl with three heavy blasters, and you know what?  It was worse than Odyssey with two or three plasma cannons (which was more inefficient, but could strike very well, great for vent spamming).  (Odyssey had three mount overlap before v0.9a.)  Astral was a pig, worse than Odyssey in every way except number of bays (which was only three for some releases).  Even so, Astral could brawl, just not as well as Odyssey, let alone Paragon or Onslaught.  I did not use missiles on Astral back then because they ran out too quickly in an age when battleships (and one or two cruisers) could solo the simulator in ten to fifteen minutes, and only large missiles back then were Hurricane and Cyclone.

Back then, in the more faster-paced high-powered releases (which would have been more fun than modern releases if ships and weapons were not so rare back then), I considered three heavy blasters cruiser-level firepower.  Aurora back then could not do it, since it was proto-Gryphon back in the day with large missile mount before Gryphon was made.  Eagle could run with three blasters (plus three heavy autocannons), with some difficulty (like two blaster Tempest), but it could do it.  Back then, I wanted Aurora to smash things with three blasters more comfortably than Eagle, since Medusa could comfortably use two blasters back in the day.  Instead, Aurora was the point-blank Cyclone Reaper missileboat specialist (that could still shoot two blasters like Medusa plus HEF).  Today, Aurora is much like pre-0.8a Medusa.

Speaking of Gryphon, Gryphon today has much in common with modern carriers (at least in stats), except it has the misfortune of specializing in real missiles instead of fighters, and given more aggressive warship AI, which combined with destroyer-level stats, dooms it in a brawl.  It should hang back automatically like a carrier would, so it can lob homing missiles a safe distance away.

Quote
Astral is the most dedicated carrier, it should not be good at brawling.
That would be represented by any other opposing capital crushing soon after it gets into range.  Maybe opposing cruiser can give it difficulty, but would otherwise be a roughly even match.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 12:34:12 PM by Megas »
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FooF

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2020, 03:17:04 PM »

@Megas

I'm in complete agreement with intrinsic_parity: the Astral doesn't need any help. All its mounts are meant for PD and swatting away the occasional Frigate or Destroyer that gets close. Yes, it's a Capital but it divested almost all of its combat ability to support 6 full wings of fighters and a recall device that makes dealing with stray ships that get too close hilariously easy. I mount Gravitons and Phase Lances mostly and Missiles that support the Fighters. It ought to be able to protect itself from small fry but the fighters ought to do the majority of the work.

If you want a Brawling Carrier, you have the Legion and Mora. The Astral competes with the Drover for "most dedicated carrier" moniker in the game. Carriers almost never are known for being able to win a fight without their fighters so I don't know why the expectation is any different for a Capital-grade Carrier.
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2020, 03:36:23 PM »

Before v0.8a, Astral could brawl with three heavy blasters, and you know what?  It was worse than Odyssey with two or three plasma cannons (which was more inefficient, but could strike very well, great for vent spamming).  (Odyssey had three mount overlap before v0.9a.)  Astral was a pig, worse than Odyssey in every way except number of bays (which was only three for some releases).  Even so, Astral could brawl, just not as well as Odyssey, let alone Paragon or Onslaught.  I did not use missiles on Astral back then because they ran out too quickly in an age when battleships (and one or two cruisers) could solo the simulator in ten to fifteen minutes, and only large missiles back then were Hurricane and Cyclone.

Back then, in the more faster-paced high-powered releases (which would have been more fun than modern releases if ships and weapons were not so rare back then), I considered three heavy blasters cruiser-level firepower.  Aurora back then could not do it, since it was proto-Gryphon back in the day with large missile mount before Gryphon was made.  Eagle could run with three blasters (plus three heavy autocannons), with some difficulty (like two blaster Tempest), but it could do it.  Back then, I wanted Aurora to smash things with three blasters more comfortably than Eagle, since Medusa could comfortably use two blasters back in the day.  Instead, Aurora was the point-blank Cyclone Reaper missileboat specialist (that could still shoot two blasters like Medusa plus HEF).  Today, Aurora is much like pre-0.8a Medusa.

... I think your memory of old carriers is mixed with your memory of old skills ...

You're asking for the Astral to be as good as it was with old skills and without built in fighters, which would be OP in the current version of the game. 3 HB is the same DPS and armor penetration as 2x current plasma cannon (1500 dps at 500 damage per shot), which is full on capital warship firepower IMO. That's before you add large missiles and fighters. It would be totally OP in the current versions of the game if the Astral could fire 3 Hb comfortably. Reverting the fighter change wouldn't even get you back to that point, the skill change is really what stopped the astral from using 3x HB IMO.

I think Astral should have light cruiser firepower (i.e. enough to kill a destroyer easily and survive against/duel a cruiser with its capital grade defenses). That's ~1HB or 2PL + beams/PD/large missiles in the current versions of the game IMO. It can already do that by using cheaper fighters, but I agree that some small OP buffs (and DP increase) to make that more viable would be helpful. Asking for more than that is like asking for the healing/support class to have lots of damage: the role of the ship means it will have bad brawling capability. Astral should get stomped by any capital class ship (without fighters), and it should be cautious of fighting cruisers without support.
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Megas

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2020, 04:28:52 PM »

Astral has many mounts, but I leave most of them empty because six high-end bombers and little else is probably optimal.  I would like to use bigger and/or more guns, but doing so shoots itself in the foot.

Funny about mentioning Drover.  I think it is a shame that Drover works best by being unarmed and focus fully on high-end fighters and run from everything like Spathi, even though it has the stats to brawl lightly much like Mule or Gemini can.  I tried a needler and missile loadout with some fighters, and while it works, it is not as good as the all high-end fighters/full defense/unarmed Drover.  Why would I want to brawl when Drover can run like Spathi and watch things die with minimal risk?

The only other dedicated destroyer carrier aside from Drover is the Condor, which is clearly the budget or pirate option.  For cruisers, there is Mora and Heron.  Mora is as much a dedicated carrier as Heron.  Mora is not a good brawler (even though it is tough enough to take hits), no field mobility and a bunch of short-ranged light guns.  Maybe Mora would have been a good brawler before 0.8a, but we will never know (because it did not exist back then).  Heron used to be super Wolf when Wolf could solo cruisers and Onslaught.  Now, brawling with it does not seem like a good idea.  Legion is only a dedicated carrier because the game thinks it is, but it seems more like a hybrid like old Odyssey before Odyssey became a super Shrike with bays as a vestige of what it used to be.  Even with Legion, I find myself using few guns because of worse dissipation than Onslaught (which is bad too) and limited OP to support both brawling and fighters.

Quote
You're asking for the Astral to be as good as it was with old skills and without built in fighters, which would be OP in the current version of the game. 3 HB is the same DPS and armor penetration as 2x current plasma cannon (1500 dps at 500 damage per shot), which is full on capital warship firepower IMO. That's before you add large missiles and fighters. It would be totally OP in the current versions of the game if the Astral could fire 3 Hb comfortably. Reverting the fighter change wouldn't even get you back to that point, the skill change is really what stopped the astral from using 3x HB IMO.
I suppose so in an age when Onslaught cannot support powerful heavy weapons properly.  It stinks when the best I can put in Onslaught's heavy mounts is one among Heavy Needler, Dual Flak, Hellbore, or Devastator because it lacks the dissipation to use heavy weapons.  Far cry from when it could use two or three Mjolnir or Storm Needlers without too many problems.  Still, there should be a good reason for Astral and all other dedicated carriers to arm up instead of dumping guns and be a better ship without them.  Unarmed Astral does not have light cruiser firepower or possibly even frigate firepower!

Carriers have mounts.  They should use them!

Re: Skills enabling 3 HB Astral
The skills helped Astral use three blasters, but if it had to spend OP on fighters like today, then Astral would either be unarmed due to OP taken by fighters, or Astral would be heavily armed and have mining pods for fighters.  Given the lack of fighter skills at the time, Astral playership probably would have ended up as armed carrier with pods, if player wanted to use Astral instead of Odyssey.  Fortunately, carriers did not need to make that sadistic choice on the ship level.  (Instead, fighters ate Logistics, which had its problems too.)

The point of reverting back to fighters-as-ships is freeing up OP for guns and flux and ITU.  Maybe Astral cannot use three blasters, Aurora certainly cannot today even if it has the mounts now.  At least with fighters-as-ships, carriers will (or could) be armed like hybrids or Gryphon are today and still use good fighters, instead of sacrificing everything to use good fighters as done today.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 04:54:10 PM by Megas »
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Morrokain

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2020, 05:06:32 PM »

@Megas

Fighters-as-ships was terrible imo. They were impossible to balance, they looked clunky during deployment, and they trivialized the carrier role to AI-ship-only because they made personally controlling the carrier basically pointless. Said it before and I'll say it again, it is a step backwards to go back to that system. What is the point of having a brawling carrier if flying one was just flying a weaker combat ship? Like, where is the draw to fly there for the player? There weren't any tactical considerations to be made at all, and the meta often revolved around having few carriers actually deployed because you could deploy as many wings as you wanted and a single carrier could technically support them all. Extra carriers were only necessary to replace wings slightly faster or for the rare instance in which a carrier died. I mean, that's how I remember it anyway.

If you really wanted to make a change to carriers along the lines you speak of, it would be far, far easier to bring back hangar space and have wings cost that instead of OP. Separating out the resource pools would solve the problem way more easily than reverting the entire new system - which I find to be a great deal more robust than the old one.
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Goumindong

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2020, 05:26:52 PM »

So you don't think the ship is OP starved but you suggested leaving FOUR MEDIUM slots completely empty, not even downsized, just empty

Yup. The ship is 24 DP and has 220 OP... the dominator is 25 DP and has 180 OP

The Atlas II is hella good if you can protect it. Two overlapping large ballistic turrets with accelerated ammo feeder and capital sized ITU/DTU! Holy ***! Two large missile launchers! Holy ***!

Sure it explodes if you look at it the wrong way but damn it it doesn’t bring the pain
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rokenx2

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2020, 05:40:32 PM »

wow thank you for all the responses guys and i agree and disagree with a lot here and thats totally what i was hoping for is to get peoples thoughts!


the Astral i actually think raising it to 50 dp wouldn't be a a bad idea it is strong but i still think legion should be dropped to 35 perhaps one or the other but i think lowering the legion would be better also a suggestion for builds for both..... 2 MIRV with missile racks.... link em .... they are devastating to support from a distance and still decent close too used to carry dovers in large numbers but after the dual mirv build i dont see a point anymore unless to squeeze in a ship with limited remaining dp

i didint nesssisarly mean it was easy to get odyssey early on its just the off chance you do get it early on and are able to make it... yah it can be amazing its great vs smaller ships and a great chase ship to hound retreating ships but i find it funny its a battle cruiser and costs more than many actual battleship capital ships i mean in a slug fest the onslaught even with its flux problem can take more of a beating and dishes out more of a punch... (though i know it will get out maneuver and likely lose by an actual player) but ai vs ai i bet it would get spanked in a slug fest and it should its a battle cruiser with half the large hard points and its hull is squishy compared as it kinda should be

atlas mk2 yes ive done the build where you put 2 gauss and 2 mirvs its good for a sniper for sure (though ai suicides it too often) but im just saying its a damn shame to not be able to use said hard points.... though admittedly i dont mind the idea of giving ships more hardpoints then their OP can properly fill just for added customization though that dose trigger my OCD a little =P

as for fleet size.. sorry i dont know the older versions of the game i only found this about a yearish or so ago  i wouldn't be against smaller overall fleet sizes but when we have a deployment point limit anyways... i honestly don't even see a point of a fleet size limit at all =P let fuel and supply's be your limit! =p...

as for fighters yah i feel many eather have way too small a wing size and or way too high a OP cost to compete with some of the others i have seen some people compain the fighters are too large i always just RPed it as they arnt as large as they appear but they appear that size on the sensors =P to justify that for my RP reasoning =P also i Love to actually be able to see the designs any smaller and we would miss out on a lot of cool ship designs by them being like 2 pixels =P

phase ships... i may not be in the popular opinion on this one but personally id love the option to disable phase ships at the start... i hate them with a passion not like the little teleporty ones but the full on become untargetable then zoom around and cause the battle to last 2 minutes longer than it needs too ones and when i use them the ai seems so potato  they just zoom in and get killed or they just stay phased for so long they flux out and never really do their share of damage so i don't use em at all i love and respect the work it took to make em i think they are creative and neato i just.... dont feel they add much but its just a minor point and they surely dont ruin the game for me

as for more weapons yah small laser really needs more all i end up ever using is LR PD for large ships and for brawly ships trying to use ships that use non laser hard points =P
perhaps add a ship hull mod or so that converts laser hard points to ballistic or missile... could be fun to toy with (though i feel may make some too op so im 50/50 on that)

missle weapons i think are great in a lot of ways though i would love to see some more unlimited ammo missile variants though i think they should be far weaker than limited ones also perhaps more ship variants with the "missile 3d printer" =P

ballistic i feel could use some longer range PD but honestly i feel is in a great place right now other than having so few high end ships using them (as i feel the onslaught hardly counts as i cant use it with the flux limit i just spam MG and heavy needlers replacing large slots with medium weapons)

as for more ships id personally love to see more battle cruisers and more cruisers in general i find most of the time im constantly rotating out my medium ships to find my strongest fleet but i feel with the AI's desire to suicide my medium ships into hostile capital ships.... i dont really seee myself ever being fully content with cruisers and feel its one of the reasons for capital ship spam being so good frigates and destroyers fairly easy to replace... cruisers easy late game but annoying especially when you get a rarer variant like a 14th falcon


"Speaking of Gryphon, Gryphon today has much in common with modern carriers (at least in stats), except it has the misfortune of specializing in real missiles instead of fighters, and given more aggressive warship AI, which combined with destroyer-level stats, dooms it in a brawl.  It should hang back automatically like a carrier would, so it can lob homing missiles a safe distance away." -Megas

i agree with the Gryphon it is a carrier for missiles i tend to give it orders to follow my carriers personally i think its one of the best ships in the game  because of its amazing ship quirk (missile 3d printer) =P but it still finds its way to the front lines to suicide sometimes. Im really sad the laser variant just falls shamefully short of being a comparable counterpart having a speed boost instead of a cool laser quirk

"AI orders are never intended to be 100% set orders they are suppose to carry out, they prioritize their own safety over anything else. " -WesternFail

there are 2 retreat options direct retreat and fighting retreat and neither seems to offer me much success seems to be a  huge crap shoot.. .trust me i get it in the chaos of a battle like these there would surely be some delay before orders get there sure... but i dont even feel like theres a delay they just refuse to disengage ive givin an order to a 75% hull onslaught (who refused to use its shields 80% of the time btw >.>) and watch it slowly get pounded away as it keeps charging and what felt like a good 30 seconds (probably less but in the heat of battle it felt like ages) and it still dosent even respond to the order just keeps fighting full ham  and lets itself get surrounded and killed

i think "form battle line" would be a great command option have you draw a line and put ships on that order to try to have em hold line then you could draw a second line for carriers/gryphons and maybe a third line for reserve/chase ships

also perhaps a "anti encirclement" command that keeps the escorting ship behind the ship its escorting but said ship dose everything in its power to prevent the escorted ship from being encircled thus preventing the escorting ship from  potatoing in front of the escorted ship and getting melted by hostile fire as they prevent the escorted ship from getting line of sight on said foes

i am aware you can change fleet sizes in settings and im sure you can mod many of the things i talk of like more weapons and more ships and more hull mods but im looking at it from a point of zero mods for the sake of these suggestions that being said 100% much love to the modding community


also love the comments guys keep it up be civil and remember we are all here because we find this game worth our time to comment on! =P lets do our part to ensure it only gets better from here!
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2020, 05:53:11 PM »

I think maybe there is an argument for across the board dissipation buffs (or weapon flux cost reductions) to most ships (or weapons) to try and make heavy weaponry a bit more palatable without fully committing to max dissipation. Right now, weapons like the mjolnir/storm needler/heavy blaster feel like they are very difficult to fit on ships without, absolute max dissipation and a lot of empty slots, and I feel like ships generally need to max vents to use their slots effectively. Maybe alleviating that a bit with increased dissipation could solve some of these other problems. That's a lot of balance work though. Maybe worth a different thread.
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Megas

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2020, 05:54:56 PM »

@ Morrokain:
The point of me piloting a carrier that can brawl is it can smash stuff personally when either there is an opportunity (either big guy is distracted or your carrier is the big guy).  Not unlike piloting Legion or any warship with Converted Hangar.  Basically, I want my flagship carrier to be The Battlestar (trope).  Today, only Legion can do this.  Before v0.8, anything with flight decks except Condor worked.

Given the way fighters worked before, it was useful for the carrier to be near or at the front lines, to minimize flight time to and from the carrier.

Piloting a carrier before v0.8 was more fun because I could brawl one thing while fighters attack something else (or pile on my target if it is a strong one).  Today, aside from Legion, if I use fighters, my ship is unarmed and I need to run for dear life like Spathi.  If I use guns and pods, then my carrier is mediocre at both guns and fighters and I am better off with a real warship.  With Legion today, I can brawl big stuff while fighters seek-and-destroy the cowardly AI that outruns my ship.  All carriers should be like Legion, or able to be the battlestar, which they were before v0.8a, except for Condor.

As for fighter-as-ships being a step back, I would disagree.  If anything, doing so is taking steps forward after several steps were taken back since v0.8a.  Carriers are less fun to pilot today because I cannot arm them up and brawl without destroying the point of using a carrier.  In other words, unable to be a battlestar.  Also, taking carrier skills (which is important) means my flagship is locked to Drover, Mora, Heron, and Astral for the whole game - yuck.

P.S.  I forgot to mention that without high Leadership, I had no fleet!  (That required Leadership/Fleet Logistics, which I did not touch until after level 40, well after endgame.  Combat and Technology were much more fun.)  If I wanted a carrier and some fighters, that was my entire fleet, or most of it!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 06:09:01 PM by Megas »
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Megas

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Re: a few suggestions
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2020, 06:02:15 PM »

Re: phase ships.
Doom is fun to pilot, and the AI uses it well.  I dislike the other phase ships because only the player can pilot them effectively (and loadout is probably a bunch of reapers or other strike weapon) while AI overuses cloak and runs away from fight until it cannot anymore after running out of PPT/CR before everyone else.
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