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Author Topic: Re: What's your enforcer build?  (Read 3015 times)

Havoc

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« on: September 06, 2020, 04:42:01 AM »

*necro*
what are actual good builds for enforcer only fun fleet?
hmg so?
or without so?
flak at center?
converted hanger? which earlygame fighter?
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Schwartz

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Re: Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2020, 04:52:40 AM »

Weapon stats have changed quite a bit since this thread was created.

I put 2 single Flak in the sides, 2 Heavy AC in the diagonals and 1 Heavy Mortar in the front-facing mount. This is a decently flux-efficient loadout with a lot of kinetic firepower with the caveat that the build will not be perfectly accurate and better suited for destroyer combat and above. 4x Annihilator in the missile slots.

Heavy Armor & Armored Mounts or shield mods, depending on playstyle. Fast Turrets, Range, and the rest is up to you.
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Thaago

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2020, 10:41:00 AM »

Hi! Its against forum rules to do necros like this, so in future please start a new thread. I've split the thread at the new post so people don't get confused by the 8 year old replies.


These days my Enforcers are usually recovered pirates with many D mods so the flux stats are even worse than usual - I'll do Converted Hangar, 4 rockets or harpoons, 3 flaks (sides and front) and 2 kinetic guns (at this stage in the game whatever I can find). They will probably blow up at some point but that doesn't really matter. The 3 flaks + CH makes them actually pretty good against enemy fighters.
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Goumindong

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2020, 01:06:46 PM »

IIRC I used two HAC or 3x arbalests, max caps, anhillators or swarmers or atropos, and as many armor mods as possible
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Havoc

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2020, 01:51:10 PM »

thanks for splitting

are your builds for single enforcer or multiple?
my intention ist having 15-20x enforcer fleet (or maxships - 5)

no so or engine boost?
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Igncom1

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2020, 02:38:51 PM »

I mean, what are you even planning on doing with a destroyer swarm?

Later into the game when you are fighting fleets of cruisers or capital ships general purpose gunboats like the enforcer just don't seem to have much of a place. They don't tank damage very well (the Medusa can serve as a fairly decent teleporting shield tanking craft), nor are they terribly efficient at putting damage out (like hammerheads, sunders, or harbingers), and they don't have a well defined role outside of those to use as supporting craft (like a carrier).

You will be out ranged by stations and larger ships rather handedly, easy pickings for fighter swarms (but who isn't to be fair), and out ran by top of the line frigates some of whom can easily outfight the enforcer anyway.

This is why I don;t tend to use them any more as yeah they do a fairly decent job punching down against most frigates on the flanks of a proper line battle, and bully non-combat destroyers and cruisers decently enough as well but they aren't my first choice for anything. If I need a general purpose combat destroyer I'll use a hammerhead, if I need a supporting ship then a carrier drover will do nicely, if I need a good hammer to the anvil that is my capital ships then I use the sunder, and when I'm going for phase ships I'll use the only one there is, the harbinger. Sometimes I might use the medusa but frankly both it and the shrike suffer kinda like the enforcer in being the middle child, not the biggest nor the nimblest to be great enough one way or the other to consider over more specialised vessels.

My problem with the enforcer is that it isn't tanky enough to be fine with focusing on it's weapons, but frankly it doesn't have the ability to use all of the medium ballistic mounts effectively anyway. Sure it out tanks most frigates, but armour is one or two missiles away from being useless anyway and it's not like HE is hard to find or use, and it certainly out shoots them, on paper it should be fantastic. In reality it's never quite safe from being torpedo'ed and it can't equip or use enough decent cannons to fully take advantage of it's weapon slots, and with poorer low grade weapons it can barely out punch frigates anyway! It just feels like target practice for the enemy. Even with specialised load outs it never feels like it contributes like other ships. Loaded with flak and one hvd is nice for some fleet support, but a carrier typically does the same over a MUCH larger area. A brawling enforcer with hmgs and an assault cannon can tear open a target in seconds, but so can a boosting hammerhead. And any enforcer trying out as a long range cannon platform with a mauler and hvds will struggle to keep them all influx half the time anyway and will never out-range anything but stuff below it's weight-class anyway.

Lategame I see no use for it as bigger gunboats are always better, and it can't really do anything else better then other options.
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

Sharp

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2020, 02:43:54 PM »

If you are having Enforcers only then you're going to want a bunch of different builds to handle various situations.

If you are facing a fighter heavy force then flak cannons
Up against more beefy opponents you are going to want some Sabots and maulers
Against a more lighter frigate/destroyer fleet then harpoons and hyper-velocity drivers
Against phase ships, I'm not too sure, maybe salamanders to keep chasing, but more ships covering each other is probably more important.

You will also need to keep an eye on your fleet and cycle ships as required as armour get's low, you don't want to wait until hull starts taking serious damage.

Probably going to take heavy losses vs star fortresses though.

Best off perfecting builds in simulation mode, but enforcers are going to need to use missiles so there are only so many enemies they can kill.
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Goumindong

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2020, 02:54:11 PM »

thanks for splitting

are your builds for single enforcer or multiple?
my intention ist having 15-20x enforcer fleet (or maxships - 5)

no so or engine boost?

I don’t usually do a full fleet. I just use them for fill. And I generally don’t care if they explode, giving them reinforced bulkheads to make sure they’re around after a fight.

The idea is very simple

1) theyve got terrible dissipation and cap and so cannot afford to be long term ships and must armor tank

2) as a result they cannot afford to run any HE nor can they afford to over-gun in any way.

3) so the point is to absorb fire/annoy small ships.

They kind of get thrown in as a stopgap ship. If you have a bunch they’re efficient in terms of OP... but not in terms of officers and so you will start to run into a wall as soon as you can fly proper cruisers.

You also really need the “fix armor/hull after a battle” skill
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Thaago

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2020, 05:38:17 PM »

Though they will be receiving some very nice defensive buffs next version (shields to 1.0 and more armor IRRC), in this version I don't consider them good enough to either buy or build. I use them opportunistically as recovered ships if I'm playing with the D mod reduction/Converted Hangar boosting/recovery boosting skills, as long as they don't have degraded engines bringing my burn down. Because D mods don't effect missiles or OP, their 4 smalls and a Converted Hangar let them be useful fodder until they pop and don't come back.
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FooF

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2020, 07:04:26 PM »

Enforcers are in an unenviable spot right now. Everything around them has been buffed but they've stayed the same for ages. They used to be reliable gunboats but the Hammerhead can just about do anything an Enforcer can do and has a better ship system, shield efficiency, and speed/maneuverability.

SO Enforcers are little bowling balls of death but that makes them one-trick ponies.
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Goumindong

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2020, 08:12:13 PM »

Hammerhead dissipation/DP -> 45
Hammerhead OP/DP 9.5

Enforcer dissipation/DP -> 44.4
Enforcer OP/DP 12.2

The hammerhead does kill better. But the enforcer has 15 more OP for 1 less DP. With heavy armor (which you have the OP to fit) it has 950 armor, almost as much as an eagle!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 08:20:00 PM by Goumindong »
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intrinsic_parity

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2020, 08:38:49 PM »

All that shows is that OP/DP and dissipation/DP are not complete metrics of performance. In my experience, the hammerhead at 10 DP way outperforms the enforcer at 9 DP. I think 9 hammerheads beat 10 enforcers, and although that's not really a conclusive test, it would be a fun test.

I would say the ship system is the biggest part of that and probably worth the 15 OP difference. I'm not sure what the up-time is on accelerated ammo feeder, but it essentially is bonus dissipation equal to (%up-time)*base dissipation, in addition to 'free' alpha damage. 
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Goumindong

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2020, 08:44:26 PM »

They are not complete measures of performance but they’re not worthless either. The point is that there are absolutely things the enforcer can do that the hammerhead cannot. The enforcer has 15 more OP than the hammerhead and should tend to fit fewer guns... there is a lot of stuff you can slam into it that you cannot fit into a hammerhead
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Locklave

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2020, 06:20:51 AM »

The enforcer and all the fat ships like it lack the armor and firepower to make up for how easy they are to hit and clumsy they are. Maneuvering Thrusters are a required waste of OP.

It's a good ship, but I'd never buy or build one. Never buying or building one is a major problem with many of the ships in this game, too many are just completely outclassed. In this case Hammerhead > Enforcer.
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Megas

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Re: What's your enforcer build?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2020, 06:41:06 AM »

Enforcers are early-game bricks when player has nothing better, and have better firepower than Mules.  They get the job done until player gets better ships.

The (early-game) loadout I use are two Arbalests, one Heavy Mortar, and two (single) Flak, assuming I have those weapons.  Missiles are whatever are at hand, with Annihilators being preferred choice.

Quote
Never buying or building one is a major problem with many of the ships in this game, too many are just completely outclassed.
That is a problem with many frigates.  With few exceptions, frigates are obsolete almost immediately after the game begins.  Destroyers too once player fights capital spam on a regular basis.

Quote
In this case Hammerhead > Enforcer.
A reversal from pre-0.8 days, when Hammerhead was outclassed by the other three combat destroyers.  Enforcer needs help.  Did not help that Heavy Mauler was weakened to be a sniper weapon.  (Elite Enforcer variant with 2 HVD and old Mauler was brutal and a priority target to eliminate.)  Mauler used to be an upgrade from Heavy Mortar.  Now it feels like a sidegrade, and I use Heavy Mortar for HE work unless I need the range.  I wish there was an elite (or simply above low-end) HE weapon on par with Heavy Needler or even Heavy Autocannon.  (Mauler used to be it, but not anymore.)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 06:43:06 AM by Megas »
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