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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.4.1  (Read 6341 times)

mrpras

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.0
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2020, 10:01:01 AM »

The first suggestion is don't be put off by anything negative, people just want it to be better I think.

I think so far it's really great, haven't tried 0.3 but will after this. A few ideas/suggestions/questions I'm thinking about:

I'm not sure but many of the weapons seem really under-powered, why is this? It's great that they use 0 install points but then doing 20dps is a little bit pointless. I find myself installing other weapons or just two powerful Star Trek beams instead of many smaller turrets. The big ships are meant to take down smaller fighters I guess but they don't have much effect against other big ships - I suppose this is canon and the fighters are powerful so they get by. Just curious on your reasoning here, I would love a bit of a bump to the dps say 50? I get that if all the hardpoints were populated by 0-need weapons then the craft would be OP in the game but that for me wouldn't be an issue since the Empire and Republic are meant to be the big fish in the galaxy and very hard to threaten unless you're a big shot like the crime syndicates (by the way these would be great additions in future).

I also was wondering about the idea of the two key empires having planetary systems so close. I could imagine a scenario where more of the planets from the starwars universe are included and basically it makes the whole make effectively about two major powers fighting (that would really be the star-wars theme I guess) - maybe think the galaxy map on "empire at war".
https://empireatwar.fandom.com/wiki/Planets_in_Empire_At_War

That way being commissioned by either side would give you a general mission - conquer all enemy planets/bases and they would be doing the same. Of course in terms of Canon, the Empire should begin much more powerful than the rebellion - I guess if you wanted to go all out you could have the rebellion be an in game alliance with the Empire basically being the hated group so would not ally with anyone. That could result in a "build the rebellion and fight back" scenario starting from a relatively hopeless position (sounds good in my head, not sure how fun it would be until balanced out).

In terms of sound/music (if you wanted to go that way) I've done a star-trek music mod for the Homeworld Remastered StarTrek mod, that was very involved because there are about 16 eras/races each with their own signature combat and idle music and about 10 tracks in each playlist). But if starwars music is something that would work in the mod I could look into putting something together. There's not so much music in starwars and only two signature groups so it wouldn't be so hard (probably).

Oh and one detail about the fighters that I didn't like - the twin-tail xwings that look like ww2 fighters? I would just make them xwings but with a gold trim or something like that. Those pre-jet fighter sprites are out of place and break immersion for me.

Anyway I'll go play the new version and see what's up. Glad you're still working on it!
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BeyondTheHorizon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.0
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2020, 12:07:36 AM »

First of all, thanks for the your suggestions, very constructive and solid, much appreciated.
I'm not sure but many of the weapons seem really under-powered, why is this?
Star Wars ships are a bit different from Starsector's instead of having handful amount of powerful weapons plus couple PD weapons or missiles, SW uses rather small turrets that scatter around the ships and the damage output between variants of turbolaser aren't hugely different.
Therefore, at the beginning, many ships, especially the capital and dreadnought, have more weapon slots than the ships in base game or the other mods  (and the number had been reduced in v0.2 as there're comments complain about the number of weapons). So, I didn't make the weapons very powerful, more like quantity over quality? But it can turn out still being too weak even with the sheer number of weapons so there're still things to work on for the weapons balancing for sure.

It's great that they use 0 install points but then doing 20dps is a little bit pointless. I get that if all the hardpoints were populated by 0-need weapons then the craft would be OP in the game but that for me wouldn't be an issue since the Empire and Republic are meant to be the big fish in the galaxy and very hard to threaten unless you're a big shot like the crime syndicates (by the way these would be great additions in future).
About the install points, all weapons have install point now since v0.2 except for point defense laser cannon if it's what you're taking about. SW PD weapons aren't as effective as Starsector's laser or chain gun so I make it 0 energy used and 0 OP cost. As for crime syndicates, pretty good idea, can be added into the road map if I can find usable ship sprite (I lack the drawing skill so it's the only way :'().

I also was wondering about the idea of the two key empires having planetary systems so close. I could imagine a scenario where more of the planets from the starwars universe are included and basically it makes the whole make effectively about two major powers fighting (that would really be the star-wars theme I guess) - maybe think the galaxy map on "empire at war".
The two system are close because Coruscant and Chandrila are close in SW map? ;D For more planets, it would be lovely to see the galaxy map of SW in Starsector but there're other systems in the base game and systems added by other mods which I don't know their coordinates so I need to be careful to avoid superposition with other systems, it will take a lot of work.

That way being commissioned by either side would give you a general mission - conquer all enemy planets/bases and they would be doing the same. Of course in terms of Canon, the Empire should begin much more powerful than the rebellion - I guess if you wanted to go all out you could have the rebellion be an in game alliance with the Empire basically being the hated group so would not ally with anyone. That could result in a "build the rebellion and fight back" scenario starting from a relatively hopeless position (sounds good in my head, not sure how fun it would be until balanced out).
Something like New Republic free the galaxy from Empire post battle of Endor? EAW Thrawn's Revenge in Starsector sounds interesting.

In terms of sound/music (if you wanted to go that way) I've done a star-trek music mod for the Homeworld Remastered StarTrek mod, that was very involved because there are about 16 eras/races each with their own signature combat and idle music and about 10 tracks in each playlist). But if starwars music is something that would work in the mod I could look into putting something together. There's not so much music in starwars and only two signature groups so it wouldn't be so hard (probably).
WOW, I'm looking forwards to it.

Oh and one detail about the fighters that I didn't like - the twin-tail xwings that look like ww2 fighters? I would just make them xwings but with a gold trim or something like that. Those pre-jet fighter sprites are out of place and break immersion for me.
I think you have a point, twin-tail is just too much a like ww2 fighters from top down, LOL. It looks good in comics though. New Republic doesn't has as many starfighter variants as tie does so it's difficult to find a replacement for it. Is there any good fighter in your mind?
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mrpras

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.0
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2020, 03:11:31 AM »

Ah great I see in 0.3 you've upped the weapons anyway a little. Been playing that last night and it's getting a lot better already!  (star detroyer) but that's minor stuff.

Regarding ships, I'm fairly sure it would be easy enough to grab models of any starwars ships (there are plenty of fan-made 3d models out there) and render them from the top - although that's not really a good sprite unless you set it up right - it would be worth a shot I guess. When I have time I'll look into it.

To me the planets being close (because they are in the star wars universe) doesn't make sense because it's as you say "not" the star wars universe so relative distances should be based on playability (imho). I would put them both at the edges of the core system space at opposite ends (top right and bottom left for example). Then as arch enemies their battleground is the whole sector (core at least).

I'm also thinking that the Empire and Republic core planets should be size 10 right? Seems odd to me that hegemony would be more powerful - i mean of course you're adding a mod into a game that already has its universe but I guess I would go for the more total conversion approach - where if you use this mod you're accepting that you're not going to be playing the original game at all (in the sense that there's no benefit to worrying about people complaining that the mod does too much to change the game).

Maybe variations of xwings or weapons for example can just be reskins of existing ones (like the newer xwings and ties in the movies) - the first order and old republic could all be mixed in a bit I guess. Then the three xwings are basically old, very old and new - justifying their performance and price differences. I think there's the tie reaper (in the new star wars game) that might be interesting - it's a fleet support fighter and I'm not sure but it would be awesome to say have 2 tie fighters, two bombers and a reaper to buff them (if fighters can do things like provide minor shield buffs to allies then it would be a negligable difference to bigger ships but would add survivability to the fighters slightly and give a new dynamic to fighter group gameplay?). Not sure how this would be achieved but I would imagine a new hidden weapon type that these fighters have and that weapon is a tiny shield buff and is quietly firing in the background or something like that).

The music stuff, I've got basically all the sw music including some rare stuff - I'll look into the music system of starsector and see what the musical triggers are and make some playlists around that and see how it goes. Might take a while so don't hold your breath - just depends when I get a good time for it but it's fun so hopefully soon.

Small detail - I love that the capitals on the republic side have drive-fields - shouldn't the big empire ships also have them? Is this intentional?

By the way, I'm playing this mod inside Nexerelin, should have mentioned that I guess. In fact when I got this game after trying it an hour I went looking for mods and never since played without Nex, prefer the 4x approach and all the lovely goodies that this community have added.

What I would love to see is an integration of support from other modders - all you seemed to get here was complaints - which to me suggests that people are cynical but hopeful. I think this mod could be one of the great mods (i'm loving a similar star trek mod also - also unbalanced, but I don't care so much about that personally - that balance gets worked out much later on anyway once things are fleshed out).

Would love to see unique planet mods - like empire prisons, training camps, pilot training etc - anyway, so much potential and of course as you say you're "just a gamer" well, you've taken that step to modding and it's a good one even if you don't have all the skills you're open about that. I think that's great, keep going!
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mattmios

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.1
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2020, 12:19:49 PM »

First, thanks for the mod, having much fun with this.

2 humble suggestions:
- weaker but more fighters (bigger squadron sizes?)
- medium transports to buy? lika an action IV or the round rebel transport (or I am just unlucky at ship markets)

Cheers
matt

PS: as long as there are variants, the more weapons the merrier ;-)
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BeyondTheHorizon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.0
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2020, 04:02:42 AM »

Regarding ships, I'm fairly sure it would be easy enough to grab models of any starwars ships (there are plenty of fan-made 3d models out there) and render them from the top - although that's not really a good sprite unless you set it up right - it would be worth a shot I guess. When I have time I'll look into it.
Yeah, I've found some sprites of the others faction in Star Wars. After finishing the balancing stuffs I maybe able to add more factions into the mod. Meanwhile, I'll keep an eye on to the release date of Starsector v0.95a and see if I can wait to continue the big update after the release.

To me the planets being close (because they are in the star wars universe) doesn't make sense because it's as you say "not" the star wars universe so relative distances should be based on playability (imho). I would put them both at the edges of the core system space at opposite ends (top right and bottom left for example). Then as arch enemies their battleground is the whole sector (core at least).
No harm to separate them farer, I guess. Distance can be relative after all.

I'm also thinking that the Empire and Republic core planets should be size 10 right? Seems odd to me that hegemony would be more powerful - i mean of course you're adding a mod into a game that already has its universe but I guess I would go for the more total conversion approach - where if you use this mod you're accepting that you're not going to be playing the original game at all (in the sense that there's no benefit to worrying about people complaining that the mod does too much to change the game).
I just forgot about the pop sizes of the planets, I guess. It should be good to increase them. As for total conversion, I not thinking that far yet as it will need more factions and ships or it will be lack of contents but it can be a plan.

Maybe variations of xwings or weapons for example can just be reskins of existing ones (like the newer xwings and ties in the movies) - the first order and old republic could all be mixed in a bit I guess. Then the three xwings are basically old, very old and new - justifying their performance and price differences. I think there's the tie reaper (in the new star wars game) that might be interesting - it's a fleet support fighter and I'm not sure but it would be awesome to say have 2 tie fighters, two bombers and a reaper to buff them (if fighters can do things like provide minor shield buffs to allies then it would be a negligable difference to bigger ships but would add survivability to the fighters slightly and give a new dynamic to fighter group gameplay?).
And think I just found a good replacement - Alpha-class xg1 star wing 8).
Tie Reaper is already included in the mod as support fighter but hmm... the support fighters in game don't have any special ability tho. I can tried to add shipsystem to fighter (not sure if that's possible, no fighters have shipsystem in game so far). And I need to think of a good effect too, buffing shield can do but not every fighter has shield (Tie LN, IN and BA).

The music stuff, I've got basically all the sw music including some rare stuff - I'll look into the music system of starsector and see what the musical triggers are and make some playlists around that and see how it goes. Might take a while so don't hold your breath - just depends when I get a good time for it but it's fun so hopefully soon.
Sure, take your time. I'm also busy for stuffs lately too and sorry for the late reply BTW.

Small detail - I love that the capitals on the republic side have drive-fields - shouldn't the big empire ships also have them? Is this intentional?
I think they also have it too, the ships with the size of procusator class or above.

What I would love to see is an integration of support from other modders - all you seemed to get here was complaints - which to me suggests that people are cynical but hopeful. I think this mod could be one of the great mods.
Well, suggestions are always welcome no matter they're complaints or not as long as it's reasonable.

Would love to see unique planet mods - like empire prisons, training camps, pilot training etc -
I did think about something like that before to recreate some unique planets like Scarif (Imperial archive) but I haven't figured out how the planet industries modding works yet, I need to look into it more.
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BeyondTheHorizon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.1
« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2020, 05:17:56 AM »

2 humble suggestions:
- weaker but more fighters (bigger squadron sizes?)
- medium transports to buy? lika an action IV or the round rebel transport (or I am just unlucky at ship markets)
PS: as long as there are variants, the more weapons the merrier ;-)
Maybe but it can't be too large, wings in base game are mostly consist of 3 fighters too. As fighters have a replacement rate so even if I increase the size of a squadron, it still takes time for the fighters to respawn one by one if the squadron was wiped out. Continuous fabrication of fighters also decreases the replacement rate too.

As for the transports, there are 3 civilian class freighters: AA-9, Action VI and BFF-1 bulk freighter plus GR-75 for New Republic. Do you want more? Maybe a Eta-class Supply Barge for Empire?

For the more weapons part, I'm still thinking on how to show the differences between weapons apart from stats if I want to add more weapons. I need to see more example of turbolaser in action, like I just knew the large turbolaser batteries on Imperial I have a really fast fire rate after rewatching the battle of Scarif. I have added ion torpedo for bombers in the next update, for the record.
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mattmios

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.1
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2020, 03:24:31 AM »

After playing some more I have to agree, the fighters are a littel OP as it is (tried a fighter heavy rebellion start).
The AA9 and bulk freighters I have never seen in game, do they spawn?

PS: Still havin much fun with the mod
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th3boodlebot

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.1
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2020, 03:20:04 AM »

Looks very nice!  Since you asked for ideas: maybe add boss ships piloted by characters from the series.  If you dive into Legends I'm sure there's plenty of material.  Maybe add the Yuuzhan Vong?  Even if all you do is polish what you have: well done.
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BeyondTheHorizon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.1
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2020, 05:57:59 PM »

After playing some more I have to agree, the fighters are a littel OP as it is (tried a fighter heavy rebellion start).
The AA9 and bulk freighters I have never seen in game, do they spawn?

PS: Still havin much fun with the mod
I am aware of the fighters power level is a little high but it's kinda recreating the fighter tactic in Star Wars. I made an advanced targeting computer hullmod in v0.4.0 which is a built in hullmod for most frigates, increase the accuracy of PD weapons and increase damage against fighters and missiles. It makes frigates highly effective against fighters. I will keep monitoring the fighters, balance them if necessary and may implement rarity for high tier fighters.

As for the AA9 and bulk freighters, silly me forgot to add tag for them to be use by the empire and rebel, will fix it in the next patch.
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BeyondTheHorizon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.3.1
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2020, 06:11:07 PM »

Looks very nice!  Since you asked for ideas: maybe add boss ships piloted by characters from the series.  If you dive into Legends I'm sure there's plenty of material.  Maybe add the Yuuzhan Vong?  Even if all you do is polish what you have: well done.
Good idea, don't know it's actually possible to add boss ships and can assign specific character to a ship. I will look into in, thanks for the idea.

I will add more factions in the future, Republic and CIS remnant, Mandalorian, Zann Consortium etc. Yuuzhan Vong also, if I can find the ship models. Currently, I'm working on some final polishment on empire and rebel, adjusting the ship sizes according to cannon data. Hope I can make more weapons if I can ask my friends to draw the weapon sprites for me.
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FireBlitz8404

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.4.0
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2020, 01:02:26 PM »

I enjoy this mod very much and appreciate all the work you put into this. My only real complaint is this.
I threw this mod in the mix of all my various faction mods along with Nexerelin. Worked great, but...its the music.
The battle music. Every time I enter combat its Battle of Endor.
Every.
Single.
Time.
Maybe it's just me and my game, but I couldn't take it anymore. Had to start a new game without the mod.
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BeyondTheHorizon

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.4.0
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2020, 10:00:37 PM »

I enjoy this mod very much and appreciate all the work you put into this. My only real complaint is this.
I threw this mod in the mix of all my various faction mods along with Nexerelin. Worked great, but...its the music.
The battle music. Every time I enter combat its Battle of Endor.
Every.
Single.
Time.
Maybe it's just me and my game, but I couldn't take it anymore. Had to start a new game without the mod.
I'm sorry if the music bothers you. There is an optional patch in Nexus to disable Star Wars combat music but not in this forum page, sorry about that. I have disabled the music by default in v0.4.1 and players will need to enable it themselves after on.
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Tom130

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Re: [0.9.1a] Star Wars 2020 v0.4.1
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2021, 01:55:42 PM »

I play it in v0.4.1 & with Nexerelin 0.9.7c.

Got to say, I really love it. F_cking up the Rebel scum! Vader in a maxed out Procursator and a fleet of Vindicators really rocks. Invading some planets, defending against hordes of attackers...

The Empire ships are a little overpowered but it fits the Empire well. Way to many hullmods but I like it!

But when I face the Rebel forces, I see some strange fleets. They have lots of Imperial ships. Like the Ton Falk or Lancer, most strange is the Immobilizer! On the other hand, I never could buy them (Ton Falk, Lancer) in Coruscant. Also can not find the Vigil or Gladiator and some more.

I played around with your ship data.csv and changed some values like "empire" and the last 3 digits in the row, but without success.

Can you give me a tip how to enable them?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 02:02:41 PM by Tom130 »
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