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Author Topic: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)  (Read 151923 times)

6chad.noirlee9

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #435 on: October 01, 2021, 02:59:13 PM »

THATS A GREAT IDEA
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edit: edit: maybe were just falling with style LOL.  make a bubble, make the space in front of it smaller and just fall forward

hydremajor

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #436 on: October 04, 2021, 04:07:48 AM »

Here's a thought

call it a "bolt of inspiration" if you will...

What if the hegemony mechs had 4 armed mechs ?

and by that I mean building their mechs with 2 pairs of arms each with their dedicated purpose

the first pair would function like normal, hold a gun, ami and shoot

the second pair could be built for melee attacks like what one of the kingdom of terra ships has going on ? maybe have the ship perform a sort of "forward dash" to close in with the melee attack and have that be tied to the ship's system

maybe add some extra flavor to thoses by changing the damage type of the punches ?

so one mech would have EMP coils for knuckle dusters that would knock out systems on direct hits for example

Or even fists with built in guns that fire when swinging, like bomber bays activating mid punch to throw out a volley of bomblets

something that I don't know if possible and could be cool is putting physical shields on the melee arms so that while they are just sitting still they still hold purpose by providing a bit of the ship you could willingly expose to damage so you now have a extra defensive option and using the flux shield or physical shield

Sorry if that being obnoxious but I just felt like talking about that idea...
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Space_Lettuce_OG

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #437 on: October 04, 2021, 10:36:33 AM »

First I want to say this is amongst my favorite mods, easily. So, thank you for all the effort you've put into this very shiny and polished mod, I love it to bits.

Okay, now onto business... I think every ship and fighter is very well balanced, has a role, excels at certain things, but is bad at others, which is a good approach to balancing these lovely little glass cannons.

However there is 1 ship I have yet to find a suitable role for, and at least so far in my experience, it appears to be just objectively inferior to everything within it's weight class, and even losing to things well beneath it's weight class. It has nothing it excels at, and is the only ship don't use from this mod.
The ship I'm referring to is the Altagrave (both variants)

Has anyone found a suitable role or purpose for this ship, to justify it's 18 deploy-points & maintenance price tag?
Is this ship one that just needs another balancing pass?
Am I missing something here?

Would appreciate hearing from other players experience fitting this ship. Thanks!
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hydremajor

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #438 on: October 04, 2021, 10:44:46 AM »

I use the altagrave as a pressure machine, slap on some EMP weapons and suddenly ships have to pick who they die to...
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Space_Lettuce_OG

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #439 on: October 04, 2021, 11:30:36 AM »

I use the altagrave as a pressure machine, slap on some EMP weapons and suddenly ships have to pick who they die to...

Still gotta live long enough or be maneuverable enough to drop the enemy's shields in order to do any significant EMP damage. How do you go about doing this?
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hydremajor

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #440 on: October 04, 2021, 12:15:27 PM »

I use the altagrave as a pressure machine, slap on some EMP weapons and suddenly ships have to pick who they die to...

Still gotta live long enough or be maneuverable enough to drop the enemy's shields in order to do any significant EMP damage. How do you go about doing this?

Simple flanking maneuver, not a single ship in this game is built to fight by itself, bigger numbers win any encounters if the A.I. is faced with 2 ships with EMP weapons and is taken in a pincer attack no amount of shield blinking is gonna bail it out of it

thats the hard-counter to ANY ship except maybe the paragon and even then its DP cost allows you to easily have it fight your entire fleet while its more or less by itself comparatively

Further this mod STRONGLY emphasizes what I describe as "hive doctrine", the bulk of your fleet is strike crafts with a single carrier in the field to tend to them anything beyond that is a flanking ship or a bodyguard for the Hive

The Altagrave fills out theses roles with its system and weapons loadout, it either keeps a ship's attention while a faster ship just runs up the side and if said ship shifts focus EMPs will teach him thats a mistake

Further variants of the Altagrave shifts that role ever so slightly, grenades prove a massive threat since they can detonate once they slip past the side of a ship and damage them with the blast, the missile variant is more of a flanker built to take a swing at a ship busy with someone else

Anyways thats how I use it, no doubt someone's gonna mouth off anytime soon and say I'm doing it but I don't care....
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 12:17:14 PM by hydremajor »
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Space_Lettuce_OG

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #441 on: October 04, 2021, 02:02:41 PM »


Simple flanking maneuver, not a single ship in this game is built to fight by itself, bigger numbers win any encounters if the A.I. is faced with 2 ships with EMP weapons and is taken in a pincer attack no amount of shield blinking is gonna bail it out of it

thats the hard-counter to ANY ship except maybe the paragon and even then its DP cost allows you to easily have it fight your entire fleet while its more or less by itself comparatively

Further this mod STRONGLY emphasizes what I describe as "hive doctrine", the bulk of your fleet is strike crafts with a single carrier in the field to tend to them anything beyond that is a flanking ship or a bodyguard for the Hive

The Altagrave fills out theses roles with its system and weapons loadout, it either keeps a ship's attention while a faster ship just runs up the side and if said ship shifts focus EMPs will teach him thats a mistake

Further variants of the Altagrave shifts that role ever so slightly, grenades prove a massive threat since they can detonate once they slip past the side of a ship and damage them with the blast, the missile variant is more of a flanker built to take a swing at a ship busy with someone else

Anyways thats how I use it, no doubt someone's gonna mouth off anytime soon and say I'm doing it but I don't care....

Okay, this is the exact answer I was looking for. Thank you very much!

I also noticed what you refer to as the "hive doctrine" with a main carrier and then strikecraft making up the fleet.

I do, however, find deviations from this tactic to be useful, like sending in a few PD frigates to assist the small bois, so they don't get eaten alive by an enemy carrier's fighter swarm. Additionally, I find it useful to send in 2-3 destroyer sized carriers, to help project my force, to prevent turtling around a single huge carrier(like a galleon), cuz the big carrier will get overwhelmed easily. But the core concept/tactics I use are of the "Hive Doctrine" same as you have said.

This is perfect, cuz your proposed use of that altagrave works perfect for my current playstyle, thank you very much!
Not gonna lie, I didn't expect to find such a complete answer from anyone, or any answer whatsoever.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #442 on: October 04, 2021, 02:42:41 PM »

i just go swoosh with laser swords  8)
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edit: edit: maybe were just falling with style LOL.  make a bubble, make the space in front of it smaller and just fall forward

Pep

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #443 on: October 04, 2021, 03:53:04 PM »

Single carrier is pretty risky since you'll kill its replacement time fast, and ships prioritize bigget things over the strikecrafts,  but probably a non issue on something with a lot of bays
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #444 on: October 04, 2021, 04:04:18 PM »

if you got something fast enough it isnt much of an issue

musashi manufactorum has a nice carrier with 4 bays and built in advanced core
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edit: edit: maybe were just falling with style LOL.  make a bubble, make the space in front of it smaller and just fall forward

YuiTheModder

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #445 on: October 09, 2021, 12:58:35 PM »

I really love Arma's creative fighter concepts, and really appreciate the effort that has clearly gone into making them balanced to vanilla standards.


One small problem we had in the recent Tournament was a crash that happened when an arma ship tried to retreat, logs to follow:

Spoiler
Quote
12983773 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.RetreatManeuver.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.RetreatManeuver.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.int$o.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.int.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.BasicShipAI.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Another user also sent this (see below) to player_tech_support in the unofficial discord, and says there was an arma ship in the fleet that had tried to retreat during a fight in their campaign:

Spoiler
Quote
2550808 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.RetreatManeuver.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.RetreatManeuver.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.int$o.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.int.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.BasicShipAI.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Sorry to dump extra work on you ^^*.
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hydremajor

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #446 on: October 11, 2021, 12:19:35 PM »

so how are things going ?
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shoi

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #447 on: October 12, 2021, 12:17:28 PM »

I really love Arma's creative fighter concepts, and really appreciate the effort that has clearly gone into making them balanced to vanilla standards.


One small problem we had in the recent Tournament was a crash that happened when an arma ship tried to retreat, logs to follow:

Spoiler
Quote
12983773 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.RetreatManeuver.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.RetreatManeuver.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.int$o.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.int.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.BasicShipAI.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Another user also sent this (see below) to player_tech_support in the unofficial discord, and says there was an arma ship in the fleet that had tried to retreat during a fight in their campaign:

Spoiler
Quote
2550808 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.RetreatManeuver.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.RetreatManeuver.super(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.int$o.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.movement.maneuvers.int.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.ai.BasicShipAI.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advanceInner(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatState.traverse(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
    at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
    at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
[close]

Sorry to dump extra work on you ^^*.

No problem, and thanks! I had this happen to me during playtesting a while ago, but it seems to be something that wasn't actually fixed. I was able to reproduce, but not consistently - will try to figure out the cause.

so how are things going ?

They're going. I made a lot more progress the last 1-2 weeks than I was earlier, anyhow.

Right now for the next update we're looking at:

-Watchdog with some minor configurability: add a kinetic built-in option, dunno about anything else. maybe a missile option?
-Altagrave: soft removal of Altagrave(G), make right arm swappable between grenade launcher, kinetic alternative, and the current default wep
-Add 2-3 more pilotable fighters
-Add 1 more carrier-based pilotable mech

I spent most of the time on the last one and trying to figure out a way to make animated legs work, but its mostly complete at this point.

Another thing i'm working on is making a simple guide for other modders who want to make pilotable ships that can land on carriers like the stuff in arma since there seems to be enough interest to warrant it, and the code is more or less in a decent enough spot for me to be comfortable with doing so. Maybe i'll have something by months end, maybe not. we shall see  :)
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #448 on: October 12, 2021, 01:39:38 PM »

glad to know things are still going well with this, it is a great source of enjoyment for me
heres hoping you make a special aleste to accompany the pink squad!
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edit: edit: maybe were just falling with style LOL.  make a bubble, make the space in front of it smaller and just fall forward

slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.5.2e (9/16/2021)
« Reply #449 on: October 12, 2021, 05:03:02 PM »

Another thing i'm working on is making a simple guide for other modders who want to make pilotable ships that can land on carriers like the stuff in arma since there seems to be enough interest to warrant it, and the code is more or less in a decent enough spot for me to be comfortable with doing so. Maybe i'll have something by months end, maybe not. we shall see  :)

T-minus how long until someone makes a Cowboy Bebop mod now...?  Guess that gambling mod can't come fast enough!
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