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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Arma Armatura v3.0.5 BETA [2/8/24]  (Read 618168 times)

shoi

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #195 on: May 09, 2021, 04:03:30 AM »

i think there's a small typo in the "Cataphract LSM" hullmod's description, or at least a better way to word it.

"33% more resistant to EMP effect, and weapons and engines are 66% less likely to fail."
i think it could work well/better as "Emp effects, while weapons and engines."

btw, got two of these little buggers and they're damn good, but they do seem a little OP. they perform a lot like tempests but just better, which is nice, but i think their deployment cost could go up a little, and they probably dont need phasefield. just seems like they've got A LOT going for them with little downside except for doubled maintenance.

EDIT: Actually nvm, they're probably ballanced fine, i forgot they're still technically fightercraft, and as such, get NUKED... good thing i found a blueprint >:3

Yeah, balancing the fighter craft has been...kinda weird. Right now, a tempest will reliably get dunked on about 75% of the time by an einhander, but an omen can effortlessy crush one. I'm pretty sure they suffer the +100% damage penalty vs captains with the point defense skill as well, so I think 8-10 DP range is probably a good spot to be. That said, it does feel a tad bit overtuned right now. I'll probably make some more adjustments, most likely some kind of nerf to its syste, like increasing the cooldown time and decreasing the damage bonus a smidgen. Thanks for the feedback!
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th3boodlebot

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #196 on: May 09, 2021, 06:47:13 AM »

i think there's a small typo in the "Cataphract LSM" hullmod's description, or at least a better way to word it.

"33% more resistant to EMP effect, and weapons and engines are 66% less likely to fail."
i think it could work well/better as "Emp effects, while weapons and engines."

btw, got two of these little buggers and they're damn good, but they do seem a little OP. they perform a lot like tempests but just better, which is nice, but i think their deployment cost could go up a little, and they probably dont need phasefield. just seems like they've got A LOT going for them with little downside except for doubled maintenance.




EDIT: Actually nvm, they're probably ballanced fine, i forgot they're still technically fightercraft, and as such, get NUKED... good thing i found a blueprint >:3

Yeah, balancing the fighter craft has been...kinda weird. Right now, a tempest will reliably get dunked on about 75% of the time by an einhander, but an omen can effortlessy crush one. I'm pretty sure they suffer the +100% damage penalty vs captains with the point defense skill as well, so I think 8-10 DP range is probably a good spot to be. That said, it does feel a tad bit overtuned right now. I'll probably make some more adjustments, most likely some kind of nerf to its syste, like increasing the cooldown time and decreasing the damage bonus a smidgen. Thanks for the feedback!







I personally think it's balanced perfectly well for the modiverse, if perhaps a bit OP in the vanilla sector.
Starting with an Aleste and a Condor is a challenge even if offset by the low costs to field.  That's really the main saving grace.
I do think perhaps the Aleste should cost 8 to deploy, however, that's the way I pilot it.
Considering balance for the AI, 6 or 7?  More playtesting before I would weigh in.
The Einhander however should Definitely be 8 or maybe even 10 or perhaps 12 for un upscale variant.  Whatever upscale variant would definitely need to be offset by having the monthly cost of your average midline cruiser or maybe even capital ship.  The normal Einhander could do with using what a high tech borderline-high-maintenance destroyer would use monthly.
Fuel costs should be nill (if supported by a carrier) with perhaps the exception of the Einhander (maybe it has some kind of crazy power core that constantly eats fuel perday or else loses cr rapdly)
I would say stay away from combat nerfs and mainly go for campaign nerfs, for the most part.  Obviously these are my SUGGESTIONS and I'm happy with whatever you do!

I really would love to see other creator play around with the "pilotable fighter" idea, with respect to
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #197 on: May 09, 2021, 07:14:36 AM »

i think there's a small typo in the "Cataphract LSM" hullmod's description, or at least a better way to word it.

"33% more resistant to EMP effect, and weapons and engines are 66% less likely to fail."
i think it could work well/better as "Emp effects, while weapons and engines."

btw, got two of these little buggers and they're damn good, but they do seem a little OP. they perform a lot like tempests but just better, which is nice, but i think their deployment cost could go up a little, and they probably dont need phasefield. just seems like they've got A LOT going for them with little downside except for doubled maintenance.




EDIT: Actually nvm, they're probably ballanced fine, i forgot they're still technically fightercraft, and as such, get NUKED... good thing i found a blueprint >:3

Yeah, balancing the fighter craft has been...kinda weird. Right now, a tempest will reliably get dunked on about 75% of the time by an einhander, but an omen can effortlessy crush one. I'm pretty sure they suffer the +100% damage penalty vs captains with the point defense skill as well, so I think 8-10 DP range is probably a good spot to be. That said, it does feel a tad bit overtuned right now. I'll probably make some more adjustments, most likely some kind of nerf to its syste, like increasing the cooldown time and decreasing the damage bonus a smidgen. Thanks for the feedback!







I personally think it's balanced perfectly well for the modiverse, if perhaps a bit OP in the vanilla sector.
Starting with an Aleste and a Condor is a challenge even if offset by the low costs to field.  That's really the main saving grace.
I do think perhaps the Aleste should cost 8 to deploy, however, that's the way I pilot it.
Considering balance for the AI, 6 or 7?  More playtesting before I would weigh in.
The Einhander however should Definitely be 8 or maybe even 10 or perhaps 12 for un upscale variant.  Whatever upscale variant would definitely need to be offset by having the monthly cost of your average midline cruiser or maybe even capital ship.  The normal Einhander could do with using what a high tech borderline-high-maintenance destroyer would use monthly.
Fuel costs should be nill (if supported by a carrier) with perhaps the exception of the Einhander (maybe it has some kind of crazy power core that constantly eats fuel perday or else loses cr rapdly)
I would say stay away from combat nerfs and mainly go for campaign nerfs, for the most part.  Obviously these are my SUGGESTIONS and I'm happy with whatever you do!

I really would love to see other creator play around with the "pilotable fighter" idea, with respect to

Oh yeah, after using them for a bit i've realized they actually are pretty ballanced. They can more or less replace frigates in my fleet, but they do have quite a hefty maintenance profile and without an officer with the right skill they can be quite quickly lost due to the fact they can be nuked by any officer with the right PD skills. As if i understand the fighter-frigate thing correctly, they're counted as fighters in combat, meaning that all skills, hullmods, and even unique weapon effects apply to them, meaning that you can nuke with them a decent PD setup. Although, do skills that give fighters bonuses in combat apply to them? This is probably something worth noting somewhere and making sure its consistent.
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th3boodlebot

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #198 on: May 09, 2021, 09:23:59 AM »

i never thought about any of that i just fly.  good questions.
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Kahnmir

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #199 on: May 09, 2021, 01:15:56 PM »

This mod is pretty polished, and fits into vanilla very well, which is something most mods don't do. but I would like to request some configuration options to get rid of the new system, and allow the LPCs to spawn regularly in vanilla factions.

my reasons for this are simple: I don't really like fixed system spawns, because it messes with the world gen (I really only want random systems generating since exploration is a big part of the appeal of the game to me), and in this case in particular I don't think there is any need for a "special system" as a lore requirement to explain why mechs exist, since its already established power suits are a thing; also most new systems that get added by mods don't really fit into the ecosystem of the core worlds, which sours me on them in general.

As for the LPCS, I don't know why you removed them? presumably because they're supposed to be rare? that said part of the appeal of a mod is not just to use the stuff in the mod but to fight against it as well, which removing the LPCS prevents. It would be nice to have the option to choose. That said, perhaps a "middle road" option would be to add vanilla carrier ships variants to the game that use the mech LPCS, that way they are rare, but you can control how frequently those variants appear? Just an idea.

Anyway, it would just be nice to be able to customize things a bit.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 01:25:28 PM by Kahnmir »
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shoi

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #200 on: May 09, 2021, 02:31:06 PM »

Honestly removing the LPCs was a bad call and will be reversed - lots of people brought up the same thing over discord. It was a kneejerk reaction to seeing a fleet spawn with like ... 8 bihanders, and now that I think about it, i'm pretty sure the reason why the AI seems to favor them specifically  is because I accidentally set them at a higher tier than any other vanilla LPC.



Oh yeah, after using them for a bit i've realized they actually are pretty ballanced. They can more or less replace frigates in my fleet, but they do have quite a hefty maintenance profile and without an officer with the right skill they can be quite quickly lost due to the fact they can be nuked by any officer with the right PD skills. As if i understand the fighter-frigate thing correctly, they're counted as fighters in combat, meaning that all skills, hullmods, and even unique weapon effects apply to them, meaning that you can nuke with them a decent PD setup. Although, do skills that give fighters bonuses in combat apply to them? This is probably something worth noting somewhere and making sure its consistent.
It's kind of a strange mixture between fighter and frigate characteristics.
Anything that relies on fighter wing to give bonuses/malus doesn't apply, but they benefit from frigate skills. I'm guessing these bonuses are applied on ship "creation" and since the ship is a frigate at this point, it's treated as such. So they get the wolfpack bonus, but not fighter uplink.

A lot of other bonuses that aren't granted at ship creation that  affect fighters won't affect them, because they don't have a mothership to get the bonuses from (For example, Strike Commander works by being applied to fighter wings of the piloted carrier, but since they're unattached fighters, there is no way for them to receive the bonus. A mod example of this is the kadur fighter iff thing, which weakens every fighter from a carrier that doesn't have the hullmod - it does nothing to these ships, because they have no carrier to check against).  Hmm, yeah, probably a good idea to note this all down somewhere..

However, any mechanics that are determined DURING combat that SPECIFICALLY checks if the affected ship is a fighter will affect them accordingly. PD skill for example seems to be calculated when damage is dealt, so from my tests they fully are affected by that. One of the Tiandong weapons have special behavior when fired near a fighter, and these ships are fully affected by that as well. Additionally, AI sees them as fighters, which has them treat them a bit differently than they would a normal frigate, preventing a few things like them sending torpedo strikes against them, or larger ships trying to turn in order to face them.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 02:36:04 PM by shoi »
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #201 on: May 10, 2021, 01:16:33 AM »

Aye, more balance notes. Just got my hands on a stock altgrave and i've gotta say, the altgrave's vajra is, unfortunately, nearly useless... The pseudo-missile attribute is neat, but i've just tested it against a load of ships and 50%+ of the shots are destroyed before they even get to the target. when they actually connect they do some decent damage, but just about any PD shuts its primary damage source down completely...

PS, there appears to be a shading bug in the arma armatura's system, gamlin, everything is completely green. I've tested it with just graphic/magic/lazy-lib, arma armatura and console commands.
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th3boodlebot

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #202 on: May 10, 2021, 04:35:33 AM »

I think the biggest issue currently is that the ai doesnt recognize what is in your universal slots (or doesnt seem to)

you mentioned how they wont turn and face an aleste, a ship with forward shield and exposed engines, it is easy to fly up and hit it with two reapers because like you say it doesnt turn.  if you were in a regular frigate it seems like it would turn.

im not sure what could be done but a lot of times it seems like they almost dont realize the threat, however, im not an ai pilot either lol
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shoi

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #203 on: May 10, 2021, 07:51:27 AM »

I think the biggest issue currently is that the ai doesnt recognize what is in your universal slots (or doesnt seem to)

you mentioned how they wont turn and face an aleste, a ship with forward shield and exposed engines, it is easy to fly up and hit it with two reapers because like you say it doesnt turn.  if you were in a regular frigate it seems like it would turn.

im not sure what could be done but a lot of times it seems like they almost dont realize the threat, however, im not an ai pilot either lol

AI knows the DPS potential of ships, it's just not gonna turn to expose itself to a greater long-term threat. Cruisers-Caps treat frigs the same unless they panic.

Aye, more balance notes. Just got my hands on a stock altgrave and i've gotta say, the altgrave's vajra is, unfortunately, nearly useless... The pseudo-missile attribute is neat, but i've just tested it against a load of ships and 50%+ of the shots are destroyed before they even get to the target. when they actually connect they do some decent damage, but just about any PD shuts its primary damage source down completely...

PS, there appears to be a shading bug in the arma armatura's system, gamlin, everything is completely green. I've tested it with just graphic/magic/lazy-lib, arma armatura and console commands.

I havent messed with any shader-related stuff so im pretty sure that's not an arma bug. have you tried without glib?
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 07:56:48 AM by shoi »
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th3boodlebot

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #204 on: May 10, 2021, 09:10:16 AM »

I havent done as much playtesting as I would like, so some things are still a bit of a mystery lol.


Just out of curiosity, what is everyones current Aleste build?
I like built in heavy armor and shields with saftey overrides, then use two arc emitters a sword and a rynex as my kit
that's my final build though i have several depending on application (ai usage/support)
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #205 on: May 10, 2021, 11:43:06 PM »

Aye, more balance notes. Just got my hands on a stock altgrave and i've gotta say, the altgrave's vajra is, unfortunately, nearly useless... The pseudo-missile attribute is neat, but i've just tested it against a load of ships and 50%+ of the shots are destroyed before they even get to the target. when they actually connect they do some decent damage, but just about any PD shuts its primary damage source down completely...

PS, there appears to be a shading bug in the arma armatura's system, gamlin, everything is completely green. I've tested it with just graphic/magic/lazy-lib, arma armatura and console commands.

I havent messed with any shader-related stuff so im pretty sure that's not an arma bug. have you tried without glib?

Just tried, it still bugs out and turns green/orange O.o
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hydremajor

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #206 on: May 13, 2021, 09:32:02 AM »

I know its gonna *** peoples off when I say this, because I assume you're getting hundreds of suggestions to add mechs in the mod

but I was curious about your opinion on a certain mech design not everyone may have heard of

I'm talking about the High-Macs from Gungriphon (Saturn game)

The High Mac is designed like a mix between a IFV and a Gunship:

The legs are designed to function as heavy duty suspention and to assist the mech in take-off, the feets are fitted with wheels on the inside that poke from under, allowing the mech to go remarkably fast, meanwhile standard "walking", although slow, provides much greater grip for fine movements and rough terrain

The torso is the interresting part, its effectively designed not unlike a fighter jet, the sides of the torso can mount weapon pods in the spaces between the arms and its sides, such weapon pods provide the mech with weapons typically found on aircrafts, mostly explosive ordinance such as rocket pods set to fire in bursts to affect a large area and homing Anti-Tank Missile launchers
The rear part of the torso fits two jet-fighter-esque jumpjets that enable the mech to perform a huge upward jump wich then deploys somewhat short wings to act as "parachutes" by granting a limited gliding ability, such jumps allow the mech to pivot from a ground warfare role not unlike a main battletank to short stints of close air support not unlike a proper airborne gunship
the last part of the torso being the head, a camera with added optics such as night vision and various range finders to target the mech's weaponry

The mech's design is rounded out with human-like arms, ending with hands, often equipping weapons through the use of a "gun assembly" wich enable the mech to hold its handheld weapon with greater ease, the assembly is effectively a frame that allows the mech to aim its gun by simply bringing up its forearms to point toward the ennemy with a additionnal brace going across the mech's width and allowing the second arm to provide extra lifting power...
The guns fitted on the assembly are a Tank-Grade autocannon (most likely a 155 mm) that provides a heavy punch able to work through armored targets such as tanks in a 2 to 4 shots...
To provide the mech with a sidearm of sorts, a vulcan cannon is also fitted onto the gun assembly and set to be easily switched to during combat should autocannon ammunition run out mid-engagement

lemme just round this out with a picture
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th3boodlebot

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #207 on: May 14, 2021, 03:12:53 PM »

Happy announcement time!  My capture card is in and I'm about to begin work on my first ever video!

Starring:  The Aleste!

My goal will be to find an einhander and assemble a team of alestes and possibly some einhanders.

It will be set up to be an "overpowered" light-medium patrol, at least until I get a colony to store the big ships at.  Can just go grab one when I need it for that big invasion.

Anyway thanks so much I really enjoy dogfighting cruisers and capitals with my -totallynotagundam-
Lol
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KDR_11k

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #208 on: May 15, 2021, 04:06:20 AM »

Given the shmup theming of it all and the recent release of Final 2 I'd love to see something based on the R-9A Arrowhead (R-Type) with its detachable nigh-indestructible frontal shield. Having a drone with a fortress shield or something like that on it just hovering in front of an enemy, getting in the way of shots would be funny.

Also as a more practical matter I think it'd help players if smaller pilotable mechs had a certain level of time dilation associated with them. My reaction speed isn't great :P.

the feets are fitted with wheels on the inside that poke from under

I think the original Assault Suit Valken has those (in the SNES game), and it seems based on the Scopedog from Armored Trooper VOTOMS.
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JUDGE! slowpersun

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Re: [0.95a] Arma Armatura 1.4.7 (5/6/2021)
« Reply #209 on: May 15, 2021, 02:01:37 PM »



Oh yeah, after using them for a bit i've realized they actually are pretty ballanced. They can more or less replace frigates in my fleet, but they do have quite a hefty maintenance profile and without an officer with the right skill they can be quite quickly lost due to the fact they can be nuked by any officer with the right PD skills. As if i understand the fighter-frigate thing correctly, they're counted as fighters in combat, meaning that all skills, hullmods, and even unique weapon effects apply to them, meaning that you can nuke with them a decent PD setup. Although, do skills that give fighters bonuses in combat apply to them? This is probably something worth noting somewhere and making sure its consistent.
It's kind of a strange mixture between fighter and frigate characteristics.
Anything that relies on fighter wing to give bonuses/malus doesn't apply, but they benefit from frigate skills. I'm guessing these bonuses are applied on ship "creation" and since the ship is a frigate at this point, it's treated as such. So they get the wolfpack bonus, but not fighter uplink.

A lot of other bonuses that aren't granted at ship creation that  affect fighters won't affect them, because they don't have a mothership to get the bonuses from (For example, Strike Commander works by being applied to fighter wings of the piloted carrier, but since they're unattached fighters, there is no way for them to receive the bonus. A mod example of this is the kadur fighter iff thing, which weakens every fighter from a carrier that doesn't have the hullmod - it does nothing to these ships, because they have no carrier to check against).  Hmm, yeah, probably a good idea to note this all down somewhere..

However, any mechanics that are determined DURING combat that SPECIFICALLY checks if the affected ship is a fighter will affect them accordingly. PD skill for example seems to be calculated when damage is dealt, so from my tests they fully are affected by that. One of the Tiandong weapons have special behavior when fired near a fighter, and these ships are fully affected by that as well. Additionally, AI sees them as fighters, which has them treat them a bit differently than they would a normal frigate, preventing a few things like them sending torpedo strikes against them, or larger ships trying to turn in order to face them.

The other interesting part I find for this is that some of the mechs are incapable of capturing tactical objectives since the game consider it a fighter for the purposes of the fight map but a frigate on the campaign layer.

Also, would be cool to add one or two support style ships that aren't just converted freighters, but actual destroyer or cruiser carriers that exist to resupply the mechs and also launch two or three wings and include decent fuel, crew and cargo capacity, militarized subsystems, with the trade-off of being high-maintenance (literally, both hull d-mod and just higher supply consumption/inefficiency).  Plus maybe ground support packages with another bad trade-off, like no real long-range weapons except pilum (maybe not the best example, but you get idea).
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