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Author Topic: Enemy AI fleets and retreating  (Read 3631 times)

Megas

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Re: Enemy AI fleets and retreating
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2020, 11:12:00 AM »

I do not always pilot fast ships.  (The ones I like to pilot tend to be on the slower side, like Apogee or any non-Odyssey capital)  Often, my answer to cowardly AI is fighter spam, but I do not always have enough fighters early in the game.

Still, if the AI resorts to endless backpedaling in a fight it cannot win head-to-head, it should retreat and let the player end the battle.  Waiting more than a minute following a coward before I can corner and kill it is boring (and I have combat speed set to 2f).
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 11:16:18 AM by Megas »
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TaLaR

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Re: Enemy AI fleets and retreating
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2020, 11:14:46 PM »

I also don't think that some amount of stalling is stupid per se. Putting 'avoid' order on enemy Paragon while going for rest of enemy fleet is what I'd usually do too.
I backpedal into corner as well when I need to.
Even enemy stalling without much offensive plan can be meaningful - it forces you to take risky plays to reduce PPT expenditure, thus giving enemies at least some advantage.

Overall, I'd take enemy stalling over suicidal lemming rush 100% of the time. And imo edge/corner-camping is not so much AI problem, as it is combat system problem. It is beneficial when outnumbered, so not using it would be intentionally stupid.
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Megas

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Re: Enemy AI fleets and retreating
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2020, 05:19:16 AM »

Even enemy stalling without much offensive plan can be meaningful - it forces you to take risky plays to reduce PPT expenditure, thus giving enemies at least some advantage.
Only if the enemy has more PPT than the player, otherwise, I stall until they run out first, unless they cannot harm my ships.

If the AI will run away for more than a minute in a fight it cannot win (other than stalemate in a double CR time out), they should admit defeat, retreat (so player can claim victory to end it now), and eat the (auto-resolved) pursuit battle.  Otherwise, they need to get some of their pre-0.8 fire back and fight like a man.  Modern post-0.8a behavior is too annoying to fight against, and 0.9a did not lessen it enough.  It is a reason why I tolerate fighter spam, because it is the easiest counter to that nonsense.  I do not always bring a bunch of fighters though, like in early game.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 05:21:22 AM by Megas »
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TaLaR

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Re: Enemy AI fleets and retreating
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2020, 06:52:08 AM »

Even enemy stalling without much offensive plan can be meaningful - it forces you to take risky plays to reduce PPT expenditure, thus giving enemies at least some advantage.
Only if the enemy has more PPT than the player, otherwise, I stall until they run out first, unless they cannot harm my ships.

Yeah in this case they should just retreat or choose disengage option before fight.

It may be effect of enemy command AI rather than individual ship behavior. At least in sim it's possible to lure anything into suicide against slower ship, even if they have guaranteed disengage capability. It's matter of intentionally keeping very high flux on yourself (and being able to win despite this handicap).

Example: Paragon vs 2 Beam Auroras. Note that they simply don't retreat even when taking heavy damage, or do so way too late (except when drifting away with disabled engines).
Spoiler

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« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 06:57:08 AM by TaLaR »
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Megas

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Re: Enemy AI fleets and retreating
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2020, 04:59:58 PM »

I would be a fan of the map edges autoretreating ships, both of player and AI. AI ships that bounce on the edges are a pain to kill because they cannot be properly flanked - and often times they are far enough past the edge that shorter ranged ships can't even get into firing range!
Knockback weapons when?
Missed this but...

Attacking AI ships usually avoid driving too close into the wall, like they are afraid of it.  Instead, they will hover some distance away from the edge or backpedal away toward the middle of the map.  It is probably to make it harder for player to hide at the wall or corner and kill everything (as done before 0.8a).  If AI backpedals into a corner, it is sort of like entering a safe zone where attackers cannot go to fight.
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