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Author Topic: Ship speed standard  (Read 2556 times)

Stelarwand030

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Ship speed standard
« on: May 31, 2020, 11:46:58 AM »

Now I have been playing for a short while but I have many mods installed with hundreds of different ships and something I noticed is that similar sized ships can have wildly different max speed.

I am going to talk about capital ships since they are the most noticeable but in some mods  when chasing another fleeing enemy ship one of three things happens:(the two ships are both capitals and similarly sized)
  • The ship is slow and the enemy ship flees
  • They have the  same speed and the enemy ship blows up or flees
  • The ship is faster and the enemy ship blows up.

Now I know that not all ships will go the same speed but when you have two ships that are almost the same and one goes lets say 50 and the other goes 10 something is wrong with that picture.

Now fiddling with a capital ship's speed I found that for the bigger capitals their max speed should be no less then 25 but no more then 50. And for the smaller capitals their max speed should be no less then ~45 but no more then 70.

For their turning speed a good number I found, for the most part there are outliers, is half their max speed or no more then 25.

Also if you look through the starsector wiki most capitals have a max speed ~30 with a few that go ~50 and and one that can go 70.

I used console commands to give myself all the hulls (1451 ships) and for the most part have a max speed in the ranges I gave above. Out of the ~75 or so I checked most have a speed of ~30 with a few >45 or <20 with one that had a max speed of 9. With the few super capitals with a max speed of ~20 which seems resonable.

The reason I bring this up is that these are warships and as such need to have a speed that makes them viable in battle. If your ship cannot go fast enough to attack the enemy then its a waste of a ship.The whole point of having a warship is to be roughly equal to or greater then your enemy ship. Not less then.

Edit: Is there Max speed list or ship class data list that states what data ships should have so that we don't end up with ships that don't meet their class rating?
« Last Edit: May 31, 2020, 12:21:28 PM by Stelarwand030 »
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Grievous69

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Re: Ship speed standard
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2020, 11:53:14 AM »

Out of all vanilla ships, I don't think there exists one with the speed under 25. So it seems you're having issues with mod ships, find out which ship is from what mod then write something on their thread.
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SCC

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Re: Ship speed standard
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2020, 12:12:07 PM »

In vanilla, the only ships slower than 40 units either have burn drive, are Atlas-class or are Paragon-class. Burn drive could use cancelling at any arbitrary time before max duration, but that's another thing.

Stelarwand030

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Re: Ship speed standard
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2020, 12:15:42 PM »

Out of all vanilla ships, I don't think there exists one with the speed under 25. So it seems you're having issues with mod ships, find out which ship is from what mod then write something on their thread.

I totally forgot to put in my suggestion. Whoops.
I meant to ask if there was a Max speed list or what have you that stated what range certain ships should have so that we don't end up with ships that don't meet their class rating.
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Grievous69

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Re: Ship speed standard
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2020, 12:36:26 PM »

I mean each ship is unique and can be useful without being the best in class, so I don't really see the need of speed ''standards''. As SCC said, some slow ships have mobility systems, some have huge range, same have unique weapons and so on. I don't see why a 20 speed and 80 speed capital couldn't exist at the same time (as long as they're properly balanced ofc).
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Sharp

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Re: Ship speed standard
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2020, 05:48:28 PM »

I mean each ship is unique and can be useful without being the best in class, so I don't really see the need of speed ''standards''. As SCC said, some slow ships have mobility systems, some have huge range, same have unique weapons and so on. I don't see why a 20 speed and 80 speed capital couldn't exist at the same time (as long as they're properly balanced ofc).

Yeah!

Capital Ships are all different. I mean all ships are different, you have slow frigates as well. There are trade-offs between firepower, armour, speed, abilities and supply cost. You can get a slow pirate mud skipper with a big gun, it has no armour and will be unreliable in combat, but it can pack a big punch, likewise you have the Kite which has high speed but small amount of firepower. Or Tempest Frigate has high speed, high firepower, but high deployment cost and maintenance.
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pairedeciseaux

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Re: Ship speed standard
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 02:52:29 AM »

Now I have been playing for a short while but I have many mods installed with hundreds of different ships and something I noticed is that similar sized ships can have wildly different max speed.

I am going to talk about capital ships since they are the most noticeable but in some mods  when chasing another fleeing enemy ship one of three things happens:(the two ships are both capitals and similarly sized)
  • The ship is slow and the enemy ship flees
  • They have the  same speed and the enemy ship blows up or flees
  • The ship is faster and the enemy ship blows up.

If we consider only the pursuit use case, I would say this: capital ships are not your only tool - and rarely the best, you should also use smaller/faster ships.

The reason I bring this up is that these are warships and as such need to have a speed that makes them viable in battle. If your ship cannot go fast enough to attack the enemy then its a waste of a ship.The whole point of having a warship is to be roughly equal to or greater then your enemy ship. Not less then.

Max speed is indeed an important stat. But IMO you should also consider:
  • Ship system that may give additional mobility / higher effective speed (already mentioned by others).
  • Effective weapon range - that may receive a boost from hullmods (builtin or not).

As an obvious example, the Paragon is slow but has superior weapon range. Shall we say the Paragon is not viable in battle? That does not sound like a reasonable assessment.  ;) Shall we say the Paragon is not the best at chasing enemy fleet? I think so.

Edit: Is there Max speed list or ship class data list that states what data ships should have so that we don't end up with ships that don't meet their class rating?

Well a good source is always vanilla Starsector itself. The data/hulls/ship_data.csv file contains stats of existing ships.

Otherwise the closest thing I have in mind is this: http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9052.0  It is a set of community guidelines for modders. It does not mention in-battle max ship speed though.

Also keep in mind modders have full creative freedom about their mods (within the engine limits). They may design ships that are slower that the slowest vanilla ship. Or they may design ships that are faster than the fastest vanilla ship.
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