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Author Topic: Various bugs from a playthrough  (Read 822 times)

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Various bugs from a playthrough
« on: May 23, 2020, 03:14:39 AM »

No mods, 0.91a-RC8

Excellent job. This may seem like a fairly long list of bugs but given the complexity of the game it's actually in excellent shape.

Bugs
* If you build a colony and then immediately remove the starport, you get no refund. Also whilst building that starport says the value is $0.

* When building orbital stations, the tooltip for it doesn't show the demand/effects.

* If I run a simulation with a ship that has just come out of mothball and has 0CR, it immediately malfunctions.

* Colony growth rate shows as green even when it's negative.

* One of my administrators has the exact same picture as my character does.

* My colonies keep getting attacked by various "unofficial" expeditionary forces. Fine. Except they all say "attacking this force won't harm your relations". But if they fail at the expedition, whether because I'm there manually stopping them or not, I always take a 5 hit to my rep. Exception is Pirates who I don't take a hit with. The only way I don't take a rep hit is if I destroy/disrupt the source planet, though then I take the rep hit for doing that in the first place.

* Pilum LRM launcher doesn't state there's limited ammo but there is (30).

* Apogee/Paragon both have 360 degree "front" shields. They should probably both have the extra-arc mod and the convert-to-omni mods disabled, it's only disabled on one of them currently. Also currently Paragon reports "720" degree shield coverage if you convert the shields!

* (May be intentional) - there's no "maneuverability" rating on ship info pages.

* The annihilator rocket Pod (medium) does 20,000 points of damage for 10 OP. The (small) Launcher version of the same does 25,000 for 4 OP. There are quite a few missiles/torpedos that simply aren't worthwhile when doing the maths like this.

* I deployed some of my fleet against a pirate orbital and enemy fleets. During the combat I had "-30" (minus thirty) reinforcement points; not sure if it started at -30 or that happened during the combat. Didn't lose any ships during it. Only ever saw it happen once in the entire playthrough. No idea what the trigger was, sorry.

* A stack of fighters got "trapped" on top of a carrier that I had just killed. I think they were trying to return to it.

* It probably shouldn't say "gained x experience" when you get to level 50.

* You can put "Shield Conversion - Front", and then the "- Omni" on the same ship... :-?

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Re: Various bugs from a playthrough
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2020, 03:25:12 AM »

Missed one (no edit button?)

* I have a colony with lots of environmental modifiers, and the "pollution" modifier is under the "stability" stack rather than the general stack.
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Alex

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Re: Various bugs from a playthrough
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2020, 09:10:51 AM »

Hi - first off, thanks for your feedback/reports! Happy you've enjoyed the game overall.

* If you build a colony and then immediately remove the starport, you get no refund. Also whilst building that starport says the value is $0.

Correct - it didn't cost you anything, you got it for free as part of establishing the colony, so in this specific case it cost nothing and has no refund value.

* When building orbital stations, the tooltip for it doesn't show the demand/effects.

Unless this is only true for the in-dev version, it does once you click through into the category. It can't show this info for the category because different types of stations might have different requirements and effects.

* If I run a simulation with a ship that has just come out of mothball and has 0CR, it immediately malfunctions.

It'll run the simulation at the ship's current CR by default. You can adjust the CR by clicking on the CR indicator in the refit screen, btw.

* Colony growth rate shows as green even when it's negative.

Yeah, that's a bit confusing, that's a fair point. The green color there indicates that there are incentives applied, not that it's positive. So it's an indicator for an "it has a bonus" state.

* One of my administrators has the exact same picture as my character does.

Yep! I've got a note to maybe look at excluding the player portrait from the selections for random NPCs, but for the moment this is a "how it works" given the limited number of portraits.


* My colonies keep getting attacked by various "unofficial" expeditionary forces. Fine. Except they all say "attacking this force won't harm your relations". But if they fail at the expedition, whether because I'm there manually stopping them or not, I always take a 5 hit to my rep. Exception is Pirates who I don't take a hit with. The only way I don't take a rep hit is if I destroy/disrupt the source planet, though then I take the rep hit for doing that in the first place.

Yep, this is an issue - cleared up the wording for the next release some time back. The rep penalty is not for fighting, but for making the expedition fail. Which would come into play if there are, say, multiple fleets - in that case, still you'd only get dinged once even if you fought them individually.

* Pilum LRM launcher doesn't state there's limited ammo but there is (30).

It regenerates ammo, so it's not limited. The tooltip shows its max ammo and the regeneration rate.

* Apogee/Paragon both have 360 degree "front" shields. They should probably both have the extra-arc mod and the convert-to-omni mods disabled, it's only disabled on one of them currently. Also currently Paragon reports "720" degree shield coverage if you convert the shields!

It seems like a good idea to show shield values over 360 just so you can see exactly how the mods are affecting the shield arc. The mods are enabled because there are potential interactions with other mods etc which could reduce shield arcs and so on.

* (May be intentional) - there's no "maneuverability" rating on ship info pages.

Yep, intentional; it's fairly difficult to compress to a single useful value. Well, could do something very general, but, not a bug, at any rate :)

* The annihilator rocket Pod (medium) does 20,000 points of damage for 10 OP. The (small) Launcher version of the same does 25,000 for 4 OP. There are quite a few missiles/torpedos that simply aren't worthwhile when doing the maths like this.

That's not correct, the small version has 50 ammo and does 50 * 200 = 10000 damage.


* I deployed some of my fleet against a pirate orbital and enemy fleets. During the combat I had "-30" (minus thirty) reinforcement points; not sure if it started at -30 or that happened during the combat. Didn't lose any ships during it. Only ever saw it happen once in the entire playthrough. No idea what the trigger was, sorry.

Probably a case of the game always allowing you to deploy at least *one* ship, regardless of its cost. And/or possibly changing the battlesize setting mid/combat? Also, if you lose ships during combat, that will reduce your deployment points if it affects the relative strength of your fleet and the enemy fleet. That last one is probably a bit confusing, actually; it's explained to some extent via tooltips but... hmm. Made a note to give it a look.

* A stack of fighters got "trapped" on top of a carrier that I had just killed. I think they were trying to return to it.

Thank you - I *think* that should be fixed for the next release.


* It probably shouldn't say "gained x experience" when you get to level 50.

Won't be an issue for the next release, where XP continues to matter past max level :) (Story points etc, see this blog post if interested.)

* You can put "Shield Conversion - Front", and then the "- Omni" on the same ship... :-?

Correct!
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Re: Various bugs from a playthrough
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2020, 10:50:56 AM »

You're welcome. Thanks for all the work on it; I actually bought it Feb 2012 (and the download link still works(!)!

Quote
* Pilum LRM launcher doesn't state there's limited ammo but there is (30).

It regenerates ammo, so it's not limited. The tooltip shows its max ammo and the regeneration rate.
This is inconsistent with other reloading missile though. I.e. the Salamander MRM pod doesn't list an ammo count.

Quote
* If you build a colony and then immediately remove the starport, you get no refund. Also whilst building that starport says the value is $0.

Correct - it didn't cost you anything, you got it for free as part of establishing the colony, so in this specific case it cost nothing and has no refund value.
But if I cancel it and rebuild it, it'll cost me 50k. This seems like an expensive mistake to make (and one I did make!).

Quote
It'll run the simulation at the ship's current CR by default. You can adjust the CR by clicking on the CR indicator in the refit screen, btw.
Ah, thanks for that. Although this is very non-obvious, and I'd suggest the default sim run should use whatever the default CR is unless it has been manually changed; that way the player won't get any unpleasant surprises (like their ship basically imploding ;-) ).

Quote
* Apogee/Paragon both have 360 degree "front" shields. They should probably both have the extra-arc mod and the convert-to-omni mods disabled, it's only disabled on one of them currently. Also currently Paragon reports "720" degree shield coverage if you convert the shields!

It seems like a good idea to show shield values over 360 just so you can see exactly how the mods are affecting the shield arc. The mods are enabled because there are potential interactions with other mods etc which could reduce shield arcs and so on.
To be more specific, on an Apogee (front facing shield), I *can* install an omni shield, but /cannot/ then install a front shield as well.
But on a Paragon (Omni shield), I *can* install the omni shield *and* then the front shield.
This seems inconsistent, hence the report.


Quote
It's fairly difficult to compress to a single useful value [for Manuevering]
I'm guessing it's not as simple as just degrees per second?


Quote
Probably a case of the game always allowing you to deploy at least *one* ship, regardless of its cost. And/or possibly changing the battlesize setting mid/combat? Also, if you lose ships during combat, that will reduce your deployment points if it affects the relative strength of your fleet and the enemy fleet. That last one is probably a bit confusing, actually; it's explained to some extent via tooltips but... hmm. Made a note to give it a look.
If memory serves I was deploying a Falcon at the time; so likely not the first scenario (definitely didn't start deploying anything > 30 points until very late game). I don't know how to change battlesize setting (or even that it's a thing you can change), so that seems unlikely too.
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Alex

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Re: Various bugs from a playthrough
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2020, 12:13:29 PM »

(Let me move this to suggestions, since this is more of a discussion, and the bug reports forum is much more tighly focused on just bugs.)

You're welcome. Thanks for all the work on it; I actually bought it Feb 2012 (and the download link still works(!)!

Oh, wow! Long time :)

This is inconsistent with other reloading missile though. I.e. the Salamander MRM pod doesn't list an ammo count.

Right; the Salamander is purely cooldown-based. The Pilum has ammo and ammo regeneration, which is mechanically different. In this specific case, it can shoot faster than the ammo regenerates; iirc the ammo regen rate is half the rate of fire.

But if I cancel it and rebuild it, it'll cost me 50k. This seems like an expensive mistake to make (and one I did make!).

Yeah, fair enough. Not a bug, per se, but definitely a sharp UI edge.

Ah, thanks for that. Although this is very non-obvious, and I'd suggest the default sim run should use whatever the default CR is unless it has been manually changed; that way the player won't get any unpleasant surprises (like their ship basically imploding ;-) ).

Better that surprise in the simulator than in a real battle! I think the simulator should by default reflect the current state of the ship. Fair point on the control being very non-obvious, though.

To be more specific, on an Apogee (front facing shield), I *can* install an omni shield, but /cannot/ then install a front shield as well.
But on a Paragon (Omni shield), I *can* install the omni shield *and* then the front shield.
This seems inconsistent, hence the report.

Ahh, thank you for clarifying! Let me just make it not stack in either direction; there, done.

Quote
It's fairly difficult to compress to a single useful value [for Manuevering]
I'm guessing it's not as simple as just degrees per second?
[/quote]

Right - turn rate, turn rate acceleration, acceleration, deceleration. And if you try to convert this into a sensible descriptive string, would something like a Medusa have an "Excellent" turn rate (for a destroyer), or a "Good" one (considering all ships)? It gets... weird.
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AxleMC131

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Re: Various bugs from a playthrough
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2020, 02:58:35 PM »

* The annihilator rocket Pod (medium) does 20,000 points of damage for 10 OP. The (small) Launcher version of the same does 25,000 for 4 OP. There are quite a few missiles/torpedos that simply aren't worthwhile when doing the maths like this.

Just gonna squeeze in here: Total damage is NOT the only important metric for comparing your weapons. There are many reasons why you would pick other missiles or torpedoes over the Annihilator (either size), and plenty of other reasons where the Annihilator is the better choice.

Annihilator pros:
- Lots of ammo
- Great point defense saturation (small mount has spread fire, medium mount fires a continuous stream)
- Good lifetime damage (the numbers you've given)

Annihilator cons:
- Unguided
- Low damage per shot, which is very important for armour damage calculations*
- Rockets are somewhat slow and easy to shoot down individually

Both sizes of the launcher are best used as secondary weapons, they're not great as strike weapons. The small mount is useful as a "spray and pray" support weapon, especially in combination with other bigger missiles as it gives the enemy's point defense a bunch of stuff to be distracted by. The medium mount is more of a constant pressure weapon - being able to just continuously fire rockets at a target is actually extremely potent, especially when you remember that they don't generate flux to fire!

*
Higher per-shot damage deals exponentially more damage against armour. That's why things like Hammer and Reaper torpedoes are far better at damaging armour than an equivalent total damage of Annihilator rockets or Swarmer SRMs. A single hit of, say, 1000 damage actually has more effect than five shots of 200, even though the total numerical damage is the same.
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Thaago

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Re: Various bugs from a playthrough
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2020, 03:49:30 PM »

Also the small rack has 50 rockets for 10k raw damage: the 200x5 is 5 rockets of 200 damage fired each volley/mouse click, and a total of 50 ammo, not 50 total volleys. Its a bit of a UI snag that I've gotten tripped up on before also.
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Histidine

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Re: Various bugs from a playthrough
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2020, 07:49:00 PM »

* I deployed some of my fleet against a pirate orbital and enemy fleets. During the combat I had "-30" (minus thirty) reinforcement points; not sure if it started at -30 or that happened during the combat. Didn't lose any ships during it. Only ever saw it happen once in the entire playthrough. No idea what the trigger was, sorry.

Probably a case of the game always allowing you to deploy at least *one* ship, regardless of its cost. And/or possibly changing the battlesize setting mid/combat? Also, if you lose ships during combat, that will reduce your deployment points if it affects the relative strength of your fleet and the enemy fleet. That last one is probably a bit confusing, actually; it's explained to some extent via tooltips but... hmm. Made a note to give it a look.
The most common cause I've seen (possibly the only one) is when the enemy has a station, which gets destroyed and ceases to provide its deployment bonus to the other side.

Ship loss during combat doesn't sound like it could cause the issue, since the decrease in the max DP for that side shouldn't be larger than the drop in its currently deployed DP (from, y'know, losing a currently deployed ship).
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 07:54:36 PM by Histidine »
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