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Author Topic: What is everybody's favorite weapon  (Read 16506 times)

huhn

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2020, 08:25:34 AM »

dual flak!
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TaLaR

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2020, 09:11:52 AM »

Squalls stink.  Bad tracking, not much ammo.  The best use I read about them was on Astral used to keep enemies at bay and stall for time.
...

Squalls are strong for sim duels, paired Squalls in different weapon groups allow a Conquest to one-sidedly murder any Paragon build in AI vs AI.
But in actual campaign - yeah, not really useful. Will most likely be fired against targets they can't even hit, or targeted enemy will get opportunity to vent.
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Plantissue

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2020, 10:00:01 AM »

Squalls are useful against capitals, but along with Annihilator Rocket Pod I don't like their weapon design. Disregarding their effectiveness, having a weapon where you have effectively fluxless damage for x amount of minutes and thereafter it has run out is an invitation for waiting till that ship has run out of missiles.

IF by MIRVS, megas is referring to Hurricane MIRV, I find they are extremely useful. They trend to be less susceptible to PD and not all have to hit to be useful. It's enough to do a wide spread of damage to the armour of a cruiser or capital.


tempest with 2x phase lance 1-pops almost every frigate besides the monitor, it's just a quick simulator example
This is just straight up misinformation. 2 phase lance with high energy focus will do 3750 damage. I don't see how that is possible when the two lashers already have 4100 and 3300 flux capacity and 1750+ hull. The only frigates it can "1-pop" are those without shields like the phase frigates. Which should phase anyways. Even the Shepherds will survive.
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Megas

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2020, 04:58:55 PM »

IF by MIRVS, megas is referring to Hurricane MIRV, I find they are extremely useful. They trend to be less susceptible to PD and not all have to hit to be useful. It's enough to do a wide spread of damage to the armour of a cruiser or capital.
Yes, I meant Hurricane, since it is the only MIRV in an unmodded game.  Unboosted MIRVs seem underwhelming.  They do some damage, but not enough to be worth using over Locusts.  A few hits (which is all I get when they do not converge) seem to merely tickle the enemies.  Now, if they converge and most hit, then they do hurt them bad.  Problem is that I need a booster.  I do not take Missile Spec. and adding ECCM means I need to sacrifice something I want more to get it.  Not to mention MIRVs cost 25(?) OP and ECCM costs yet more OP, which Locusts cost only 18 OP, and Locusts are good out-of-the-box with no further investment.  As for defeating PD, Locusts do an even better job because there are so many missiles and they track very well.  The only reason for me to use unboosted MIRVs is for Gauss ships because Locusts do not have enough range for Gauss users.
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Tackywheat1

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2020, 06:22:38 PM »

IF by MIRVS, megas is referring to Hurricane MIRV, I find they are extremely useful. They trend to be less susceptible to PD and not all have to hit to be useful. It's enough to do a wide spread of damage to the armour of a cruiser or capital.
Yes, I meant Hurricane, since it is the only MIRV in an unmodded game.  Unboosted MIRVs seem underwhelming.  They do some damage, but not enough to be worth using over Locusts.  A few hits (which is all I get when they do not converge) seem to merely tickle the enemies.  Now, if they converge and most hit, then they do hurt them bad.  Problem is that I need a booster.  I do not take Missile Spec. and adding ECCM means I need to sacrifice something I want more to get it.  Not to mention MIRVs cost 25(?) OP and ECCM costs yet more OP, which Locusts cost only 18 OP, and Locusts are good out-of-the-box with no further investment.  As for defeating PD, Locusts do an even better job because there are so many missiles and they track very well.  The only reason for me to use unboosted MIRVs is for Gauss ships because Locusts do not have enough range for Gauss users.

MIRVs are great on the Odyssey, it comes with ECCM
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Eji1700

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2020, 12:22:27 AM »

Squalls are fine?  I don't adore them or anything but I don't hate them either.  They're wonderful  vs larger targets (especially those pirate fleets filled with caps) and scale pretty well as you field more of them.

I feel like too often assessments are in per ship numbers rather than per fleet where certain weapons begin to shine as you get more of them onto the field.  I'll admit its a pretty lousy weapon when you're dealing with more agile fleets, but given a lot of the late game is smashing into bigger is better doctrines I've never really regretted bringing them.

Now i could totally believe they're still the "wrong" choice in that in most cases X squalls will always be worse than X of some other large missile, but I've certainly never felt it was significantly worse, and love throwing them on missile boats (who usually finish with harpoons) or my long range cap designs.
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Plantissue

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2020, 06:49:20 AM »

IF by MIRVS, megas is referring to Hurricane MIRV, I find they are extremely useful. They trend to be less susceptible to PD and not all have to hit to be useful. It's enough to do a wide spread of damage to the armour of a cruiser or capital.
Yes, I meant Hurricane, since it is the only MIRV in an unmodded game.  Unboosted MIRVs seem underwhelming.  They do some damage, but not enough to be worth using over Locusts.  A few hits (which is all I get when they do not converge) seem to merely tickle the enemies.  Now, if they converge and most hit, then they do hurt them bad.  Problem is that I need a booster.  I do not take Missile Spec. and adding ECCM means I need to sacrifice something I want more to get it.  Not to mention MIRVs cost 25(?) OP and ECCM costs yet more OP, which Locusts cost only 18 OP, and Locusts are good out-of-the-box with no further investment.  As for defeating PD, Locusts do an even better job because there are so many missiles and they track very well.  The only reason for me to use unboosted MIRVs is for Gauss ships because Locusts do not have enough range for Gauss users.
I just wasn't sure what you meant by MIRVs. Afterall you didn't call the Squall as MLRS. I find Locusts to not do well against armour and is shorter ranged than Hurricane. I use both, so I don't think one is particularily more useful than the other. Just because ECCM hullmod exists doesn't mean the Hurricane is weak without it.
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Thaago

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2020, 10:30:47 AM »

I've found both Squalls and Hurricanes to be powerful weapons as long as they fire at the right targets. Squalls firing at destroyers and below are wasted, while I've seen (many times) Hurricanes launched at fighters.

Hmm, lots of good points about the more useful weapons, but my favorites are Thermal Pulse Cannons. That sound!! Wudwudwudwud...
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Megas

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2020, 11:19:23 AM »

@ Plantissue:  I do not think I wrote MRLS for Squalls.  As for Locusts, sure they are not very good against heavy armor (or shields for that matter), but ships that have it also have a lot of hull to chew through, and Locusts will put a big dent in that.  That is why I call Locusts the anti-everything missile.  Fighters die.  Frigates die.  Destroyers will be hurt.  Cruisers and up will need some armor broken first, but after that, Locusts is a good finisher.  Locusts have shorter range, but unless I use Gauss cannons, they still have more range than my ship's main guns.  As for Hurricane, I tried them without boosts, and been frustrated or underwhelmed by the results.  Not reliable enough, not damaging enough (because insufficient converging makes too many submunitions miss), and not enough ammo for the expense.  Only with boosts (ECCM and/or Missle Spec.) do MIRVs perform adequately.

Hmm, lots of good points about the more useful weapons, but my favorites are Thermal Pulse Cannons. That sound!! Wudwudwudwud...
I liked the original sound best.  One of the few sounds I like more than the new ones.

As for TPCs, I dislike it for AI.  AI loves to build up flux with those things.  For playership, it is okay, though I wished they were not spaced so far apart.
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Grievous69

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2020, 11:28:55 AM »

Although there's one thing Hurricanes are really great for: destroying Atlases Mk II and Conquests, without ECCM they go wide and there's no way they'll be able to stop all. It completely screws long ships with Omni shields since they're slow to raise. Actually guess they're also good vs Odyssey but wouldn't know since I never saw one in campaign lol.
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AccuracyThruVolume

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2020, 11:01:34 PM »

I tend to make loadouts that are heavy on kinetic. I think it's from Tiadong: Ultra Autocannon. Great range and good flux cost.
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Squigzilla

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2020, 04:09:06 AM »

I also find Squalls to be pretty good weapons, with the caveat that I usually don't use them against my main target. Instead, I find an enemy that is under pressure from other friendly ships and launch a missile volley at them. A full Squall volley is enough to tax even a Paragon's flux capacity, and when a ship is already trying to defend itself against a different cruiser the added damage can be back breaking. They're like a kinetic Pilum volley that never ends. I can't tell if they're my favorite large missile (none of them really excite me, but I've never played with Missile Spec 3), but they serve a definite purpose.

And nobody mentioned my favorite missile of any slot size: the dual Atropos torpedo rack! The trick is to think of them as heavy Harpoon missiles rather than guided torpedoes. They're like Hammer torpedoes with enough guidance to always hit anything of destroyer size or larger, and a well timed shot can even nail a frigate. They come in a rack of two as opposed to the three-shot Harpoon missile rack but can deal WAY more damage per hit, and they're beefy enough to bypass light point defense screens that would stop most small missiles.  I often find myself wishing there were medium and large Atropos launchers for high explosive death in larger volumes. Other small missiles all have their niches, but if I don't need a specific other kind of missile for a given ship I usually slap on an Atropos.

Last in my list of unpopular weapon opinions, I honestly think the autopulse laser is my favorite large energy weapon because of a very specific synergy. As mentioned previously, the APL suffers from low sustained damage output unless it has extended magazines. Do you know what else likes extended magazines? The best PD available to high tech ships, the burst laser. With the three of those things combined, you can get great burst damage while being incredibly safe from fighters and missiles. And while plasma cannons have the best damage over a long time, the burst from a couple extended magazine APL is ferocious and will leave most cruisers overloaded with a hole in their face. But most importantly, I love the APL sound quite a lot. The plasma cannon is amazing too, but if I'm looking to give a ship high burst damage and better defenses, I'll usually pick the APL over plasma.
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lethargie

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2020, 05:03:15 AM »

My favorite has always been the Tachyon lance. It just so beautiful. One of the reason I like modded is so I can have more ship that can field it. Phase lance are very satisfying to see in action too, but I'm always a bit underwhelmed by the result.
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Grievous69

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2020, 05:08:14 AM »

@Squigzilla
I don't think Autopulse is unpopular, it has many uses and it's my favourite weapon to put on an early game Sunder. It's just that other large weapons are flashier and have more oomph so people like those more. The only thing that's bad about it imo is armor penetration, and that's solved by just shooting a second longer than other energy heavy hitters.
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TaLaR

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Re: What is everybody's favorite weapon
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2020, 05:23:43 AM »

Autopulse is the best weapon for the best ship, Radiant with 5x Autopulse + 4x Grav beams is bonkers and is hard to handle even for player piloted Paragon (skill-less duel). But we can't pilot these.
While ships we can pilot lack either speed (Paragon) or slots (Odyssey) to use AP as main weapon.
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