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Author Topic: [0.97a] Industrial.Evolution 3.3.e - Campaign content expansion  (Read 1235956 times)

Sanrai

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #690 on: April 19, 2021, 06:45:14 PM »

Is it a bug or a feature that centralization bureau doesn't affection void extraction?
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Mysticunicycle

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #691 on: April 20, 2021, 08:54:40 AM »

Bug report - When I look at a Military Relay on one of my planets, it says "This building is affected by Ai-Cores installed in a local High Command." I do not have any High Commands, on any of my planets. I assume it should say "Military Base" instead?
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squished_fish

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #692 on: April 20, 2021, 10:38:26 AM »

Bug report - When I look at a Military Relay on one of my planets, it says "This building is affected by Ai-Cores installed in a local High Command." I do not have any High Commands, on any of my planets. I assume it should say "Military Base" instead?
High Command is just a stronger Military Base. Presumably it should say “Military Base/High Command”.
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Mysticunicycle

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #693 on: April 20, 2021, 12:00:40 PM »

Yup. It should say something other than just High Command. Either combine the two with a slash, or have it display which of the two is currently the highest tier in the system.
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #694 on: April 20, 2021, 12:14:40 PM »

Is it a bug or a feature that centralization bureau doesn't affection void extraction?
Void extraction is none of my industries. I operate off a whitelist, you can edit it at your own risk!

Yup. It should say something other than just High Command. Either combine the two with a slash, or have it display which of the two is currently the highest tier in the system.
But it is only high command? AI cores in a military base do nothing for it.
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squished_fish

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #695 on: April 20, 2021, 12:50:10 PM »

Is it a bug or a feature that centralization bureau doesn't affection void extraction?
Void extraction is none of my industries. I operate off a whitelist, you can edit it at your own risk!

Yup. It should say something other than just High Command. Either combine the two with a slash, or have it display which of the two is currently the highest tier in the system.
But it is only high command? AI cores in a military base do nothing for it.
According to the wiki (which may or may not be incorrect), an Alpha Core increases the fleet size by 1.25x when installed in any of the patrol-generating buildings (Patrol HQ, Military Base, or High Command).
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #696 on: April 20, 2021, 01:06:15 PM »

Yeah, but this is not vanilla, and none of my AI core effects work the way vanilla does.

Most are sidegrades or functionality changes, different for every building. Sometimes, gamma is better than alpha for a specific use case. An alpha core also does not include the beta or gamma functionality, each is separate for industrial evolution things.

You can't even install AI cores in the relays, it's one of the trade-offs for having a one-size-fits-all defensive building.
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squished_fish

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #697 on: April 20, 2021, 01:47:47 PM »

Yeah, but this is not vanilla, and none of my AI core effects work the way vanilla does.

Most are sidegrades or functionality changes, different for every building. Sometimes, gamma is better than alpha for a specific use case. An alpha core also does not include the beta or gamma functionality, each is separate for industrial evolution things.

You can't even install AI cores in the relays, it's one of the trade-offs for having a one-size-fits-all defensive building.
All of that is true, but none of it is relevant. If the relays are affected by AI Cores installed in any patrol-generating building, it should say so. If the relays are exclusively affected by AI Cores in High Command but not by AI Cores installed in Military Bases or Patrol HQ’s: Why?

Edit: Just in case there’s a misunderstanding in play, I’ll clarify: When I say “relay,” I’m referring to the mod-added Military Relays. When I say “Military Base,” I’m referring to the vanilla Industry that’s between a Patrol HQ and a High Command in effectiveness.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 02:04:10 PM by squished_fish »
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #698 on: April 20, 2021, 02:20:13 PM »

Quote
If the relays are affected by AI Cores installed in any patrol-generating building, it should say so.
They are not.
Quote
If the relays are exclusively affected by AI Cores in High Command but not by AI Cores installed in Military Bases or Patrol HQ’s: Why?
Balancing. Relays are powerful enough as is, if you want to super-fortify your system with them, build a high command. If not, well, a military base is all it takes to build them, or a high command anywhere else - but you won't have access to the AI core effects. Mod's full of hard choices, by design.
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squished_fish

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #699 on: April 20, 2021, 02:25:23 PM »

Quote
If the relays are affected by AI Cores installed in any patrol-generating building, it should say so.
They are not.
Quote
If the relays are exclusively affected by AI Cores in High Command but not by AI Cores installed in Military Bases or Patrol HQ’s: Why?
Balancing. Relays are powerful enough as is, if you want to super-fortify your system with them, build a high command. If not, well, a military base is all it takes to build them, or a high command anywhere else - but you won't have access to the AI core effects. Mod's full of hard choices, by design.
Fair enough! In that case, yeah, the description is fine as-is and does not need changing.
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Mysticunicycle

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #700 on: April 20, 2021, 02:29:38 PM »

Quote
If the relays are affected by AI Cores installed in any patrol-generating building, it should say so.
They are not.
Quote
If the relays are exclusively affected by AI Cores in High Command but not by AI Cores installed in Military Bases or Patrol HQ’s: Why?
Balancing. Relays are powerful enough as is, if you want to super-fortify your system with them, build a high command. If not, well, a military base is all it takes to build them, or a high command anywhere else - but you won't have access to the AI core effects. Mod's full of hard choices, by design.

I think you missed my bug report. The highest defensive structure I had in my system was a military base (read: not a high command). The military relay on my second planet said "This building is affected by AI cores installed in a local High Command." I did not have a high command. I had an AI core installed in a military base, and that's what the text should have told me. I was a little confused when I saw it, thinking I mistakenly built a High Command until I checked my other planets.
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Cat in the Hat

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #701 on: April 21, 2021, 05:20:21 PM »

Have played through two universes using this mod now, and there's a serious weighting issue with it.

I've read the feedback, and a lot of it is correct: the pay-off for going through all the loops to use the printed ship BPs simply doesn't have the content / depth to back up the mechanics of it. I understand the mechanics, so let's break this down:

A) You need to colonize at least three separate planets (which might be rubbish otherwise) and  hold them
A.1) Assuming you're not save-scumming (assuming you're not playing IronMan), that means you might end up making / ditching five or so colonies to get a working Ship Forge etc

B) The mechanics are badly weighted and require huge resource investment
B.1) The drops are tied to loot tables that already hold the same BPs, meaning this mod reduces a player's chances of amazing BP / item drops .... for rubbish. Yes, I know this is somewhat offset by the unique event triggers, but it really isn't a 50/50 split at the moment
B.2) In my latest game I've found 6+ broken / blank tablets and I'm in early exploration game: about 20% explored. Serious question: do you really think anyone is going to ever use this method for six different ship BP types? No: so your loot table weighting is massively over-favouring your content to the detriment of player experience of the rest of the game.
B.3) This is ignoring the 10-12 ships required to sacrifice to get the thing working. For that amount of effort, a vanilla roll on a ship that already exists elswhere? Sorry, no: you're wasting my time.

C) You get nothing unique or extra-special from it after huge time sink / credit sink / investment -- these are essentially the same ships which you can get elsewhere, for much less effort. Yes, I can see the D-Mod angle. 9.51a has a skill that removes D-mods RNG as you fly around. So, kinda pointless all that juggling different cores then, wasn't it? Go look it up: find a BP, have a colony (that your mod requires multiple of), pay out $400,000 credits - bam, there's your endgame ship. Without.... the extra two colonies and multiple stages. And if you've a Pristine Forge, no D-mods.

D) Each of these takes 1 industry slot as an upgrade - meaning that it removes any chance of real function to the colony using it until mid game. If you parse it out, this is triple the investment since any colony with one that you might want to use when the ships might still be useful will not be producing anything else. It is crippling to use mid game since slots / growth is so mean anyhow.


@SirHartley - I get this mod: I get the mechanics: I get the effort and thought put into making the various bits work together. But it really doesn't work because you've not tied unique content / hulls / risk+reward together.  At the very least, you need a unique set of Ancient Dominion ships that can only be made through this mechanic to justify it. At the moment, it's a great way to show off you know how to do mechanics - but it's terrible for a player using it. A very hacky but immediately required fix would be to force 2-4 Smods on any hull made in this manner -- and this still wouldn't justify the investment: the mod literally requires a player to only focus on this single aspect mid game for it to ever work, let alone pay off. Which it doesn't, all sane players will be abusing Marine raids for BPs.


p.s.

Having used the Rift Mechanic, you've an issue: I selected "move to colony" - it managed to target an Outpost. You need to hit up a <subtype> flag, outposts are really not colonies (and often never in places you want your planet to rift to).


Nice work coding / mechanics. Terrible to play so far.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 05:49:35 PM by Cat in the Hat »
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Farlarzia

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #702 on: April 21, 2021, 11:14:01 PM »

Um, what? You can use that mechanic to get up to 3 build in bonus S-mods, that don't count against the normal limit using the current system. Its very powerful!
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TheDboys

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #703 on: April 22, 2021, 02:10:30 AM »

You can use that mechanic to get up to 3 build in bonus S-mods, that don't count against the normal limit using the current system. Its very powerful!
I haven’t gotten far enough in colony building to try that out but it sounds cool. Are the installed mods chosen at random?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2021, 02:12:34 AM by TheDboys »
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sprayer2708

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Re: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.1.b - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #704 on: April 22, 2021, 04:59:23 AM »

-snip-

Wait what, I thought this mod added industries, not a new way to make ships. Way to sell a cat in a bag
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