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Author Topic: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.2.g - Campaign content expansion  (Read 305979 times)

Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #330 on: September 06, 2020, 10:22:04 PM »

I'm not in any way complaining or trying to rush, but I'm still quite curious if the next update will come out in the next ~2 months?

Thank you!
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Minitialize

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #331 on: September 06, 2020, 11:04:57 PM »


I haven't tried the Military/Interestellar Relays much because, as a habit, i always build High Commands on all my planets for a multitude of reasons:
1.- The obvious spam of fleets means safety.
2.- The stability bonus.
3.- Military budget. (Nexerelin)

So, my question is: If i'm willing to meta-game like this, is there any benefit from having the relays? or is this meant for a more conservative play style?

Personally I find it really useful to have no need sacrificing an industry slot for every planet while still being able to send out patrol fleets the same size (or even bigger) to what a high command would offer. iirc too, it's also pretty useful if a star system you're occupying doesn't have any "stable orbits" because the interstellar relay also serves as a makeshift comm relay.
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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #332 on: September 06, 2020, 11:16:48 PM »


I haven't tried the Military/Interestellar Relays much because, as a habit, i always build High Commands on all my planets for a multitude of reasons:
1.- The obvious spam of fleets means safety.
2.- The stability bonus.
3.- Military budget. (Nexerelin)

So, my question is: If i'm willing to meta-game like this, is there any benefit from having the relays? or is this meant for a more conservative play style?

Personally I find it really useful to have no need sacrificing an industry slot for every planet while still being able to send out patrol fleets the same size (or even bigger) to what a high command would offer. iirc too, it's also pretty useful if a star system you're occupying doesn't have any "stable orbits" because the interstellar relay also serves as a makeshift comm relay.

This is something i don't actually understand, so say, let's say i have a system with the following:

High Command with AI core with Interestellar Relay
Military Base with Military Relay
Patrol HQ with Military Relay

Does the end result mean that military base and Patrol HQ will spawn patrols similar to the one with the high command? Because you have to keep in mind that the number of patrols vary depending on the building tier, which means that, even thought you're sending a big buff to your Patrol HQ thanks to the high command, it'll still produce just fast pickets.

Am i getting this incorrectly?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #333 on: September 07, 2020, 12:04:23 AM »

Quote
Does the end result mean that military base and Patrol HQ will spawn patrols similar to the one with the high command?

Correct. At least in fleet size.

Quote
it'll still produce just fast pickets.

Not sure, if it would be just a fast pickets, or real detachments, but even if it is just pickets, those "fast pickets" would be the hell strong. And those values definitely are in account for autoresolve battles without player in system. So yeah, that would have almost the same contribution to overall system fleet strength, as HQ would do. Helps in outmatching invasion fleets in space.

Also interstellar relays would give fleet size compared to largest in relay network, which mean that small undeveloped planet size 3 in a distant system could have almost a same fleets as your capitol market of size 10!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 12:08:11 AM by Mondaymonkey »
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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #334 on: September 07, 2020, 12:35:24 AM »

Quote
Does the end result mean that military base and Patrol HQ will spawn patrols similar to the one with the high command?

Correct. At least in fleet size.

Quote
it'll still produce just fast pickets.

Not sure, if it would be just a fast pickets, or real detachments, but even if it is just pickets, those "fast pickets" would be the hell strong. And those values definitely are in account for autoresolve battles without player in system. So yeah, that would have almost the same contribution to overall system fleet strength, as HQ would do. Helps in outmatching invasion fleets in space.

Also interstellar relays would give fleet size compared to largest in relay network, which mean that small undeveloped planet size 3 in a distant system could have almost a same fleets as your capitol market of size 10!

I guess i didn't test them enough that one time i tried. I'll give them another go next time.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #335 on: September 07, 2020, 01:18:52 AM »

I guess i didn't test them enough that one time i tried. I'll give them another go next time.

Wait till ind.evo update if so. Currently relays are bugged. Also, next update is not save compatible. Reason why I don't play SS for some time.

Also, note next:

patrol HQ < patrol HQ + relay < Hight Command < Hight command + relay(in case this is not a largest hight command you have)

Also, military base + relay are pointless and should be upgraded to HC, as it consume industry slot and obviously inferior to HC.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 01:28:34 AM by Mondaymonkey »
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #336 on: September 07, 2020, 02:11:12 AM »

I'm not in any way complaining or trying to rush, but I'm still quite curious if the next update will come out in the next ~2 months?

Thank you!

Absolutely - I'm just finalising at this point

Quote
it'll still produce just fast pickets.
Nope - the name depends on the fleet size. Fast pickets, patrols and detachments are the same codewise - even a patrol HQ can produce detachments with sufficient fleet size.

Quote
Wait till ind.evo update if so. Currently relays are bugged.
If you don't use an Alpha core in the high command in combination with the Interstellar Relay you'll be fine - it's just that specific combination that breaks things.

Got some side questions,

1. Do other factions get the effects of the Privateer Base (do they also get additional privateers)?
Not in 1.7 - they currently do nothing on AI colonies. This changes with the next update, the'll also start raiding (including your stuff).
a. I've done some testing by giving a whole faction multiple of privateer bases in comparison, if I owned them to find no messages of raids by them on hostile factions to them. Yet when I owned the same systems, I can clearly identify with notifications of raids by my own faction.
That's cause they don't start any raids, see above.
b. Purpose for this is so that I can give another faction more offensive capabilities in comparison to what's provided in Nexerelin

2. Is there any plans for a military equivalence to the Privateer Base (to prevent lawless population)?
Not at the moment. How would that be supposed to work, while bringing something fresh to the mod and the game? I'd be interested in your proposals.


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Kitfox88

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #337 on: September 07, 2020, 05:52:54 AM »

It'd be nice to be able to upgrade Embassies to level 2 or 3 to fit more ambassadors in, since otherwise it's really limited. Of course, if you've intended it to be that way for balance reasons then so be it.
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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #338 on: September 07, 2020, 07:25:37 AM »

I guess i didn't test them enough that one time i tried. I'll give them another go next time.

Wait till ind.evo update if so. Currently relays are bugged. Also, next update is not save compatible. Reason why I don't play SS for some time.

Also, note next:

patrol HQ < patrol HQ + relay < Hight Command < Hight command + relay(in case this is not a largest hight command you have)

Also, military base + relay are pointless and should be upgraded to HC, as it consume industry slot and obviously inferior to HC.

Right, thanks for the heads up.

Quote
it'll still produce just fast pickets.
Nope - the name depends on the fleet size. Fast pickets, patrols and detachments are the same codewise - even a patrol HQ can produce detachments with sufficient fleet size.

Oohh... Now that's interesting, i think this is something that should be included in the FAQ, since sites like the starsector wiki, for example, give the impression that all three types of patrols are completely different.
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Kartoffel

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #339 on: September 07, 2020, 11:54:49 AM »

Quote
Not at the moment. How would that be supposed to work, while bringing something fresh to the mod and the game? I'd be interested in your proposals.

Since you asked SirHartley, here are my thoughts.

Privateer Bases, based on what I see, activate the raid event from the planet their from, with the faction currently controlling it (currently only player), on another random faction based on relations (if their at war or not). For the military equivalence, it would function similarly, except stronger and minus the lawless population debuff.

--Multiple of factors of this new base would change which would include--

1.Raiding Fleet name change (instead of being privateers, they would hold different names similar to raiding fleets by other factions)

2.No Lawless population, since it's now a operation by the state and not by private citizens (if the British and Dutch can do it, why not the Player?)

3.Much Larger Upkeep and Cost (balance reasons)

4.From upgrading from Privateer Base (balance reasons)

5.2 or 3 raids from 1 base? (I'm no programmer, but if possible...)

6.Increased patrol size (Similar to Military Relays) / ground defense (Since it's a military structure)

7.Need of Military Base or High Command (balance reasons)

8.Still using 2 industry slots (balance reasons)

9.Name and Description suggestion: "Military Operation Center"
"A nationalized private industry now in part with the military in aiding and commanding fleets against enemies of the state. To disrupt enemy trade, hamper its military production, and weaken enemy defenses allowing for the domination against said enemy by proper forces."

10.It will still be raids.

--Why no Invasion Fleet like others suggested?--

That would make the game much more unbalanced. Raids disrupt industries, damage navies, extort resources, and cut off trade routes. Naval warfare between large competing countries have never used it as a means of conquest, unless dedicated towards the goal of conquest, which is something that can be achieved by direct (player) or indirect (Nexerelin Invasion Fleet (already balanced with fleet points)) ways. If objectives are to achieve peace against aggressor or domination of space, than raids are absolutely fine.

Navies are a means of destruction to devastate and dominate trade throughout the given seas of water or space. If someone, even the largest, most populated empire decides to fight against one who has prepared and invested as much towards the seas, such measures of retaliation are expected to be met leading to destruction towards powers which try to hamper the overall power.



These are just my thoughts.
Persean Democratic People's Revolutionary Council Rules the Waves.
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #340 on: September 07, 2020, 01:05:52 PM »

Stuff

Okay, and what's the mechanical difference to the privateer base? What you are proposing is the exact same, just hilariously OP and game breaking.
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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #341 on: September 07, 2020, 01:31:13 PM »

I don't think the Privateer's Base needs changes or improvements, it already does SO MUCH for you that it NEEDS to have some drawbacks.
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Kartoffel

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #342 on: September 07, 2020, 04:38:51 PM »

Okay, and what's the mechanical difference to the privateer base? What you are proposing is the exact same, just hilariously OP and game breaking.

I was just hoping for a more "civilized" version of the privateer base with all the limitations that come with it. Privateer bases are already very good, it'd be nice just for a version not run by pirates and instead ran by the state military would be nice (to go with a fully militarized planet theme alongside an stratocrat empire). Of coarse such drawbacks can be included such as expensively high upkeep (6-digits), need of a privateer base (for upgrade), and prerequisites are applicable. I can only see this as a late-game option for warfare against a large group of factions.

Though, I do look forward more towards the ability for other factions to use the Privateer Base, than another industry replicating the Privateer Base with a polished skin.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 04:47:01 PM by Kartoffel »
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Minitialize

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #343 on: September 08, 2020, 10:44:09 PM »

This is something i don't actually understand, so say, let's say i have a system with the following:

High Command with AI core with Interestellar Relay
Military Base with Military Relay
Patrol HQ with Military Relay

Does the end result mean that military base and Patrol HQ will spawn patrols similar to the one with the high command? Because you have to keep in mind that the number of patrols vary depending on the building tier, which means that, even thought you're sending a big buff to your Patrol HQ thanks to the high command, it'll still produce just fast pickets.

Am i getting this incorrectly?


From what I've seen, Patrol HQs with nearly or over 400% fleet size buff sends out Detachments in place of pickets-- there are still pickets here and there, but I see at least 3-4 detachments per market with a Patrol HQ + Military Relay.
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Minitialize

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.7.d - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #344 on: September 08, 2020, 11:34:12 PM »

TL;DR add an upgradeable version of Privateers base -> Military Operations Center

I personally like the idea, however I'm thinking of a Private Military Company instead of a Military Operations Center. Functions much like a Privateer's base, but they run with a higher amount/quality of ships & officers.

The part regarding lawlessness is quite arguable-- I'd leave it up to you/others as to what you/they'd prefer.

I don't like the idea of 2-3 raids from only 1 base, the potential amount of resources you can earn from one raid alone is pretty good. Best leave this as is (and enjoy having higher chances of a raid succeeding instead).

Overall, I think it isn't bad. The final judgement however falls onto SirHartley as to whether or not he thinks it's well worth it. I'm fine with the standard Privateer base, but having more options for me doesn't sound so bad (most especially if you have an influx of 4m credits)...
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