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[brekmehrkus]

I am not against this ship fabricator in ruins thing per se but so far it has been really disappointing. By the time I got a planet with a ruin I was already raking in half a million a month. By the time I used automatic plant from another ruin (first one only fixed broken blueprints) to print a Doom cruiser I already had 5 Paragons I built traditional way in storage gathering dust. I found other ruins, they probably allow making more ships or copying existing ones... but why bother? I already have blueprints to build almost everything in the game, worst case I can just go and spend money to buy them since I have nothing to do with those tens of millions of money anyway.

It is in my understanding that these ruins are endgame content, maybe allow ruin made ships to have beneficial hullmods to make them worth the hassle? Currently they only seem to be a way to make ships for players cheaper but with much more hassle around moving blueprints around and grant bonuses to industrial production.

[MagicKarpson]

Got this crash when opening the upgrade menu for the rift generator on a newly colonized world.

883131 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.conditions.IndEvo_RuinsCondition  - Adding ruins to Mnea
883133 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883134 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883135 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883136 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883187 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883258 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883266 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883267 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883268 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883269 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883317 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883388 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883395 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883396 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883397 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883398 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883448 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883521 [Thread-4] INFO  com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.derelicts.IndEvo_Ruins  - picking upgrade for ruins: IndEvo_RiftGen
883527 [Thread-4] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [campaign_music_part_2_v28.ogg]
883527 [Thread-4] INFO  sound.oo0O  - Cleaning up music with id [Starsea.ogg]
884039 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
java.util.ConcurrentModificationException
   at java.util.ArrayList$Itr.checkForComodification(Unknown Source)
   at java.util.ArrayList$Itr.next(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.econ.Market.reapplyConditions(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.econ.impl.BaseIndustry.createTooltip(BaseIndustry.java:864)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.q$1.createImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.create(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.beforeShown(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.showTooltip(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.public.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.ui.marketinfo.OO0o.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)

[Serenitis]

I find the entire reverse engineering process to be too convoluted to even bother with, if I must be honest. 

I had the same thought.
Single ship blueprints are rare enough that you can't rely on finding duplicates at all. And valuable enough that there's not really any such thing as a 'spare' one you can just casually swap for something else.
There *is* the whole 'difficult choice' thing going on. But that isn't relevant when it all depends on RNG, and you have multiple ships sat at 100% completion you can do exactly nothing with because you don't have any 'spare' single ship prints.
And those prints also need to be for the exact same size of ship as well, which further reduces the already tiny scope for use this thing has.

The 'something for nothing' argument I honestly don't think applies here either, as the player needs to put in a non-trivial amount of effort just to collect ship hulls. (12 is the highest number I've needed so far, and that took quite some time.)
I can see why it's been done like that with the prints vs lore, but it really doesn't do anything positive for gameplay (imo).

In the end it's not really any of my business if this gets changed or not. But feedback is always good, or at the very least useful.

[Chairman Suryasari]

Blueprint hunting, our favorite activity, heh.

It's probably easier to fix it on our part, player. Download mod that adjust Sector generation like Adjusted Sector, then make the the number research, mining, or any darelict station much larger, but everything else set to vanilla, it's probably feel a little cheaty but you can pump the number of remnant spawn if you want. With this we can have more blueprint to use or for reverse-engineering.

With so much mod installed to my game, using vanilla generator can be really agitating to me. Also thanks modder who bundle their ship faction into a single blueprint, you're truly wonderful.

[0.9.1a] Adjusted Sector
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17331.0

[ktarn]

I am not against this ship fabricator in ruins thing per se but so far it has been really disappointing. By the time I got a planet with a ruin I was already raking in half a million a month. By the time I used automatic plant from another ruin (first one only fixed broken blueprints) to print a Doom cruiser I already had 5 Paragons I built traditional way in storage gathering dust. I found other ruins, they probably allow making more ships or copying existing ones... but why bother? I already have blueprints to build almost everything in the game, worst case I can just go and spend money to buy them since I have nothing to do with those tens of millions of money anyway.

It is in my understanding that these ruins are endgame content, maybe allow ruin made ships to have beneficial hullmods to make them worth the hassle? Currently they only seem to be a way to make ships for players cheaper but with much more hassle around moving blueprints around and grant bonuses to industrial production.

I agree a lot with this.  I love this mod, I hope this comes across as constructive criticism, but here was my experience messing with the forge template and all that:

Spoiler

1.  There is a very high cost associated with finding not just one, but two ruins (1 deconstructor and 1 constructor).  This is fine, this is end game content.  By this point money is no issue, so even if the ship building cost was 5-10x I wouldn't care much.
2.  At this point I have blue prints to most of the faction ships or ships I want other than the unique/special variants.
3.  I find out I can't deconstruct unique ships (no problem, they're unique, afterall, slightly disappointed but understandable).
4.  I found a nice 'prototype' cruiser (Minokawa) that I wanted to make more of, this would be the perfect opportunity to do it.  I deconstruct the ONLY one I have at this point.
5.  Template made, horray, I take it over to my fab plant and stick it in...
6.  Some time later, out pops 3 of them but they all have printing defects (what the heck???)
7.  I thought to my self, ok, no problem, I'll just take them to the engineering hub to turn into a regular BP.
8.  Turns out I can't reverse engineer them due to the printing defects.  *sad face*

So  after all that setup, I basically scrapped a neat pristine one of a kind ship for useless copies that does me no good other than take up space, seems to be a great let down for end game content.

Maybe there should be a way to raise the price significantly or increase the printing time to remove the printing defects.

I really don't see the point of the forge template thing as it currently stands.

[close]

[SirHartley]

RiftGen Crash is fixed in the next version, thanks for the report!

Stuff

I understand the gripes, but do note that the printing defects you got were the result of the AI cores you installed. There are three tiers of defects, Minor, Normal, and Major. Every printed ship starts with normal, and the defects increase or decrease depending on AI core. If you got three charges from one ship, I'd say you probably also had major defects, which render a ship almost useless.

Minor defects are not noticeable at all, so using the appropriate cores is kinda important to avoid having issues.

The thing is made for you to experiment with, which is why it's obscure. Ancient tech, and so on.

As I said earlier, the next update will make it more likely for the Forge/Decon pair to spawn in one system, to make it a bit more approachable.

[ktarn]

RiftGen Crash is fixed in the next version, thanks for the report!

Stuff

I understand the gripes, but do note that the printing defects you got were the result of the AI cores you installed. There are three tiers of defects, Minor, Normal, and Major. Every printed ship starts with normal, and the defects increase or decrease depending on AI core. If you got three charges from one ship, I'd say you probably also had major defects, which render a ship almost useless.

Minor defects are not noticeable at all, so using the appropriate cores is kinda important to avoid having issues.

The thing is made for you to experiment with, which is why it's obscure. Ancient tech, and so on.

As I said earlier, the next update will make it more likely for the Forge/Decon pair to spawn in one system, to make it a bit more approachable.

Thanks, I wasn't aware lesser cores may have different effects for those, though I should've expected it since they do different things in the other buildings.  I printed mine with no cores installed since I saw that alpha cores added defects, I guess I should have experimented with a regular ship first instead of the only copy I had 

I originally thought 'printing errors' were just d-mods I could remove, not a permanent unremovable dmod.

[SirHartley]

Hm, normal printing defects can be counteracted a bit by the automated repair unit hullmod. They are annoying, but don't render a ship useless.

The core tooltips have been updated to better reflect that the defects are permanent!

[Farya]

What if the ancient lab would have an option to convert blueprint packages into blueprint templates of universal size? Or some another structure.
Also would be great to be able to reverse-engineer weapons and wing LPCs as well. Maybe even remnant/explorarium ones.

[Quantax]

Bug report: I am still receiving messages about salvage yards running out of materials after releasing them to other factions. As you propably guessed, I am using Nexerelin and bunch of other mods (list below). First I thought it was a problem for allied salvage yards since I kept getting message about a yard belonging to an ally but which I conquered and released to the faction. But later that one stopped messaging (maybe it got enough salvage?) and another started giving warnings. This one I conquered and gifted also but the current holder is not my ally. I had a commission with this faction previously, if it happens to matter.

I am running version 1.8.c of I.E.

Spoiler

{"enabledMods": [
  "Adjusted Sector",
  "sd_advancedHullMods",
  "anotherportraitpack",
  "anvil_industries",
  "raccoonarms",
  "timid_admins",
  "blackrock_driveyards",
  "CWSP",
  "Celestial Mount Circle",
  "clearCommands",
  "CombatAnalytics",
  "chatter",
  "timid_commissioned_hull_mods",
  "lw_console",
  "istl_dam",
  "diableavionics",
  "DisassembleReassemble",
  "edshipyard",
  "ExLaneUnion",
  "fluffships",
  "foundation",
  "sun_fuel_siphoning",
  "HMI",
  "gunnyhegexpeditionary",
  "HA",
  "hte",
  "hm_barratry",
  "IndEvo",
  "Imperium",
  "kadur_remnant",
  "lw_lazylib",
  "ArkLeg",
  "logisticsNotifications",
  "luddenhance",
  "MagicLib",
  "Mayasuran Navy",
  "missingships",
  "more_hullmods",
  "sun_new_beginnings",
  "nexerelin",
  "yunru_pirate_collection",
  "portrait",
  "roider",
  "SCY",
  "SEEKER",
  "shadow_ships",
  "PT_ShipDirectionMarker",
  "swp",
  "bonomel_skilledup",
  "speedUp",
  "sun_starship_legends",
  "stellics",
  "StopGapMeasures",
  "timid_supply_forging",
  "Sylphon_RnD",
  "tahlan",
  "Terraforming and Station Construction",
  "exalted",
  "THI",
  "transfer_all_items",
  "TS_Coalition",
  "underworld",
  "US",
  "vayrasector",
  "vayrashippack",
  "vesperon",
  "audio_plus",
  "shaderLib"
]}

[close]

[Zelnik]

Hey SirHartley!

First, thanks so much for making this mod, I love so much about it!


I do have one piece of feedback for you if I may.

The special industrial ruins seem... almost pointless to go for. Sure you can copy, print and make ships, or even teleport a planet but the negatives are... well.. making them pointless to even care about.


So the lab is probably the most useful because it repairs damaged forge templates. Pity that it's just about ALL it does, but by gosh by golly it does it!

The Hull Deconstructor and hull forge just make no sense when it comes to printing errors. If you can take a ship apart, then put it back together again... you can fix printing errors. I also don't understand how a MORE advanced AI would cause MORE printing errors. Ultimately, even if you minimize the printing errors, the risk of weapons not working in combat ruins the point. It's just not worth the time or the hunt. 

The rift generator is a mixed bag. I can teleport a planet! Neat! I just have to find a planet worth teleporting... and... then build a colony on it... then I suppose teleport it within it's bubble to another destination... the situations that make it useful are small.


Is it possible for these to be made a little more useful or a little less punishing?

[Zelnik]

Hm, normal printing defects can be counteracted a bit by the automated repair unit hullmod. They are annoying, but don't render a ship useless.

The core tooltips have been updated to better reflect that the defects are permanent!

I... don't think this is a logical solution. It's certainly a systematic solution but it isn't logical.

Printing defects themselves make no sense.  If you know something is present but not supposed to be there.. you remove it. You don't just shrug and let it blow your ship up over time, or patch it over with robots to fix the mess. If we were playing a pirate or luddic meta, that would be fine but these facilities are supposed to be -more advanced then current technology-  not "Pirate scrapper hopped up on anti-matter fumes" level.


Yes, technology has been lost but at the same time the people of the sector aren't primitive.

[SirHartley]

Thanks for your feedback! I addressed most of the points you cover in prior posts, so I won't repeat them here.

The stuff works the way it does for multiple reasons, "lore" being the least important.

[Zelnik]

Thanks for your feedback! I addressed most of the points you cover in prior posts, so I won't repeat them here.

The stuff works the way it does for multiple reasons, "lore" being the least important.

You are most welcome, and thank you for your polite interaction. It's a breath of fresh air on these forums where even the most simple feedback that isn't fawning admiration results in insults of character and parentage.

If it's not going to change, I really don't see myself using them. None of them are really useful enough to pursue, and when they appear it's more useful to put other things in the slots. Since 3 out of the 4 different options require one-another to work, and the 4th has no major use by itself, why even bother?

Simply put, the blueprints are too easy to find to make forge templates useful if they are making sub-par ships.

[Avanitia]

You are most welcome, and thank you for your polite interaction. It's a breath of fresh air on these forums where even the most simple feedback that isn't fawning admiration results in insults of character and parentage.

If it's not going to change, I really don't see myself using them. None of them are really useful enough to pursue, and when they appear it's more useful to put other things in the slots. Since 3 out of the 4 different options require one-another to work, and the 4th has no major use by itself, why even bother?

Simply put, the blueprints are too easy to find to make forge templates useful if they are making sub-par ships.

Well, one potential use of that system is to get more of rare / one-off ships. I can see why you might not want to bother though.