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Starsector 0.98a is out! (03/27/25)

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Author Topic: [0.98a] Industrial.Evolution - Campaign content expansion  (Read 1757037 times)

SirHartley

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1755 on: February 09, 2023, 02:42:03 PM »

no clue
try it and report back, I wanna know
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sanya02

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1756 on: February 10, 2023, 04:53:26 AM »

1386249 [Thread-3] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.NullPointerException
java.lang.NullPointerException
   at indevo.industries.artillery.entities.WatchtowerEntityPlugin.setHacked(WatchtowerEntityPlugin.java:156)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.Objectives.unhack(Objectives.java:250)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.rulecmd.salvage.Objectives.control(Objectives.java:225)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.command.WarSimScript.processStarSystem(WarSimScript.java:179)
   at com.fs.starfarer.api.impl.campaign.command.WarSimScript.advance(WarSimScript.java:119)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignEngine.advance(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.CampaignGameManager.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.title.TitleScreenState.dialogDismissed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.dismiss(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.K.dismiss(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.save.if.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.OoO0.buttonPressed(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.?00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.oooO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.V.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher.o00000(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:748)
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dudebro69

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1757 on: February 10, 2023, 07:04:42 AM »

the link to the beta version of tahlan shipworks isnt working
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dudebro69

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Geekin88

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1759 on: February 10, 2023, 01:14:22 PM »

no clue
try it and report back, I wanna know
when i teleported the artillary station was still listed in the colony but there was no physical station in space. and all the watch towers were also gone. any console commands to fix this? gonna see if i delete it will i be able to reinstall it
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Bajsmannen

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1760 on: February 10, 2023, 03:50:53 PM »

I used the transpoofer consumable once but i am still being shown to everyone as a diable avionics member. is that a bug or did i just not use it properly?
i thought it would be disabled after a few days but ive been stuck like this for months.
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1761 on: February 10, 2023, 10:35:08 PM »

I used the transpoofer consumable once but i am still being shown to everyone as a diable avionics member. is that a bug or did i just not use it properly?
i thought it would be disabled after a few days but ive been stuck like this for months.

Yep thats unfortunately a known bug. currently the only way to fix it is to basically get your fleet killed. put all of your ships&cargo away and then go get yourself wiped in like a single shuttle, or you can use the suicide command in consolecommands
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TigrisJK

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1762 on: February 10, 2023, 11:14:16 PM »

Question: Does the Centralization Bureau interact with the Commerce industry? As in, since Commerce doesn't produce anything except money, does it increase the monetary output if there are multiple Commerce industries in range? Or no?
No. *** Commerce, it's cancer and should be removed from the game.

Oh? Why's that? Not that I have any love for the industry and I almost never build it, but I'm genuinely curious as to why it's cancer from someone way more familiar with the mechanics of how the industries interact than I am.
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Kumanix

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1763 on: February 10, 2023, 11:24:25 PM »

Where can i edit to get supercomputer to accept daemon cores?

LEgio "donated" all these core for me but i want to put them to better use than just sell them
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1764 on: February 11, 2023, 05:12:12 AM »

I used the transpoofer consumable once but i am still being shown to everyone as a diable avionics member. is that a bug or did i just not use it properly?
i thought it would be disabled after a few days but ive been stuck like this for months.

Yep thats unfortunately a known bug. currently the only way to fix it is to basically get your fleet killed. put all of your ships&cargo away and then go get yourself wiped in like a single shuttle, or you can use the suicide command in consolecommands
Wrong~ the bug has been fixed in the latest release, all you have to do is update the mod and use the transpoofer again.

Oh? Why's that? Not that I have any love for the industry and I almost never build it, but I'm genuinely curious as to why it's cancer from someone way more familiar with the mechanics of how the industries interact than I am.
Three major reasons:

1) Commerce does not come with any gameplay opportunities or requirements.
It is the equivalent of a stat stick, making the numbers go up without furthering emergent gameplay or player choice. Disrupting it does nothing, having it does nothing.

With all other industries you get possible disruptions or deficits from accessibility, damaged trading fleets, fluctuations in other colony output and all the chances and risks that the commodity economy comes with (disrupt another colony for increased market share, intercept traders...). Commerce has nothing of that, it just exists.

2) It reduces your choices instead of increasing them.
Commerce increases the base income of colonies, overtaking the income of most other industries after colony size 5 just with that (if you build no other industry on a low access planet, commerce will still be the optimal choice at size 6 on average). As such, it actively detracts from your choices rather than adding to them, there is just no other option for industry after reaching a certain income, which is just dumb.

3) It compounds existing problems.
Colonies already suffer from removing opportunity from the game by making trading obsolete - why should I go around buy and sell things when my colony is giving me millions every month? Why search for ships and weapons when I can magic them into existence? Commerce compounds this issue to an incredible degree - you suddenly get more than double that money for zero risk. I'd understand if it was a station that triggers invasions on a regular scale, that, if destroyed, temporarily reduces colony size or something, but it's just an invulnerable stat mod without drawbacks.

So what?
The problem with that is that the game lives from being played.
Players are lazy creatures and will always optimize the fun out of any given opportunity if they can, simply because it is convenient.

Take the following example:
I no longer have to go trade -> I no longer encounter critical situations when smuggling -> I no longer lose ships I have to replace due to combat -> I no longer need the money so it stacks up -> I get frustrated because "there is nothing to do" and drop the playthrough.
and that is just one out of a hundred different situations that happen because the primary driving factor of the game is circumvented.

There is a line that I would like to leave my fellow players and modmakers with:
Any and all features of Starsector should lead the player into combat.

That is the single central gameplay driver. Commerce circumvents, disrupts and damages that driver, and is as such, is an active detriment to the game.
Commerce should be removed.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2023, 05:23:42 AM by SirHartley »
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Killsode

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1765 on: February 11, 2023, 05:35:59 AM »

Wrong~ the bug has been fixed in the latest release, all you have to do is update the mod and use the transpoofer again.

Oh oops, sorry. yeah that was 3.2.c
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redvyper

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1766 on: February 11, 2023, 08:43:41 AM »

I used the transpoofer consumable once but i am still being shown to everyone as a diable avionics member. is that a bug or did i just not use it properly?
i thought it would be disabled after a few days but ive been stuck like this for months.

Yep thats unfortunately a known bug. currently the only way to fix it is to basically get your fleet killed. put all of your ships&cargo away and then go get yourself wiped in like a single shuttle, or you can use the suicide command in consolecommands
Wrong~ the bug has been fixed in the latest release, all you have to do is update the mod and use the transpoofer again.

Oh? Why's that? Not that I have any love for the industry and I almost never build it, but I'm genuinely curious as to why it's cancer from someone way more familiar with the mechanics of how the industries interact than I am.
Three major reasons:
...

So what?
The problem with that is that the game lives from being played.
Players are lazy creatures and will always optimize the fun out of any given opportunity if they can, simply because it is convenient.

... [Big quote, look above and read!]

There is a line that I would like to leave my fellow players and modmakers with:
Any and all features of Starsector should lead the player into combat.

That is the single central gameplay driver. Commerce circumvents, disrupts and damages that driver, and is as such, is an active detriment to the game.
Commerce should be removed.

As a nobody jumping in, I'll add that the time I put down a Starsector campaign generally follows after adding commerce to my planets. I promptly get massive amounts of cash in what feels like exponential growth. I rapidly start min-maxing my planets with my bountiful cash reserves. I stop focusing on missions, item collection, I instead focus on min-maxing my fleet and quickly accomplishing my personal campaign objectives (conquer them, do this, etc). I become unstoppable, can ignore trivialities (pfft logistics!), and nothing can threaten me.

Nowadays, I avoid adding commerce to my planets
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TimeDiver

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1767 on: February 11, 2023, 08:47:59 AM »

I used the transpoofer consumable once but i am still being shown to everyone as a diable avionics member. is that a bug or did i just not use it properly?
i thought it would be disabled after a few days but ive been stuck like this for months.

Yep thats unfortunately a known bug. currently the only way to fix it is to basically get your fleet killed. put all of your ships&cargo away and then go get yourself wiped in like a single shuttle, or you can use the suicide command in consolecommands
Wrong~ the bug has been fixed in the latest release, all you have to do is update the mod and use the transpoofer again.
Wait, I was under the impression that v3.2(a/b/c) were incompatible with v3.1(f) or earlier, requiring a New Game start.

Since the transpoofer was added in v3.1(a) according to the changelog, is v3.2(c) actually save-compatible after all?

EDIT: Alternatively, was the transpoofer bug introduced in v3.2(a/b), and doesn't exist in v3.1(f) and earlier?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2023, 09:15:40 AM by TimeDiver »
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TigrisJK

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1768 on: February 11, 2023, 09:04:58 AM »

That is the single central gameplay driver. Commerce circumvents, disrupts and damages that driver, and is as such, is an active detriment to the game.
Commerce should be removed.

Interesting take, thanks. I see where you're coming from.

It's a more eloquent articulation of why I don't generally use the industry. My colonies are usually an attempt at optimizing for total commodity self-sufficiency within my empire, so I don't find that the industry adds anything that gameplay loop. I don't mind that colonies stop me from trading, I consider the colony management phase of any playthrough distinct from all the work I had to put in to get to that phase, and I still enjoy it because my obsessive need for optimization of each of my planets leads me to combat (mostly, farming alpha cores and fending off the Hegemony once I employ said alpha cores). Even as money stops mattering I still have goals to drive towards (e.g. "collecting enough of X rare ship to reverse engineer", get rid of these annoying AI inspections by CRUSHING THE HEGEMONY, etc.).

Commerce adds very little to this 'phase' of the game for me so I don't bother with it. I was curious if the centralization bureau interacted with it because I would then have a reason to build commerce industries... as it is I won't bother. Centralization bureaus are currently part of my optimization plan, gotta have four of every industry within range so I can max out production on the planets that have them.
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Oni

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Re: [0.95.1a] Industrial.Evolution 3.2.c - Campaign content expansion
« Reply #1769 on: February 11, 2023, 03:15:33 PM »

....
There is a line that I would like to leave my fellow players and modmakers with:
Any and all features of Starsector should lead the player into combat.

That is the single central gameplay driver. Commerce circumvents, disrupts and damages that driver, and is as such, is an active detriment to the game.
Commerce should be removed.
While I don't quite agree with that statement, you may want to consider to give the player the option of changing the base functionality of Commerce then (ie a True/False toggle in the config). Perhaps reducing the overall revenue increase a Commerce building has without a Dealmaker Holosuite (ie the Commerce industry has only a modest benefit without the special item, it's much better with it but they're rare and you have to find one).
You could also go with a different tactic, make Commerce two or three tier like a Patrol HQ. The first stage is a structure (like I keep saying Tech Mining should be :P ) which just gives you the market and a small revenue bonus, you can upgrade it to an industry for a larger revenue bonus but this will mean there will an increase in merchant traffic and more importantly pirate attention. They'll raid your system more, force you to root them out and perhaps in an extremely rare event colonize one of the uninhabited planets in your system into a pirate colony. You could even make a third tier for a "one per system" mega bonus Industry that makes you bank but causes a lot of problems.

There are always options.
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