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Starsector 0.95a is out! (03/26/21); Blog post: Skill Changes, Part 2 (07/15/21)

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Author Topic: [0.95a] Industrial.Evolution 2.2.f - Campaign content expansion  (Read 267790 times)

SirHartley

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2020, 11:05:53 AM »

Update, 1.2.a

All the tooltip changes, small fixes and general polish are thanks to the extremely extensive feedback of Tomatopaste.

Supercomputers! Because that 275% Hazard Cryovolvanic planet you never bothered to colonise can now be put to use!

Change Log
1.2.a
  • Variable Industries
  • Added AI-mode for non-player controlled markets
  • Fixed VPC for Luxury goods is now usable
  • Adjusted VPC War Package now displays correct description on deposit
  • Adjusted warnings to text colour yellow
  • Military Relays
  • Fixed tootip displaying the market ID instead of market name
  • Centralization Bureau
  • Added AI-mode for non-player controlled markets
  • Adjusted warnings to text colour yellow
  • Salvage Yards
  • Added AI-mode for non-player controlled markets
  • Added notification about raid success/failure and received SU
  • Fixed Production output/cargo transfer from Salvage market now transfers everything
    (thanks for the pointer LazyWizard)
  • Fixed a crash when trying to remove heavy industry from a planet with salvage yards
  • Fixed Salvage Yards Admin not getting replaced when switched out
  • Fixed Salvage Yards market not getting removed on industry removal
  • Fixed build time to 45 days (was 54)
  • Adjusted warnings to text colour yellow
  • Supercomputer
  • Added AI-mode for non-player controlled markets
  • Added Increase system wide colony income, depending on planet temperature.
  • Added Tri-Tachyon would like to remind you to disregard any rumors of AI creation you might have heard.
  • From dev release: increased diminishing effect on stacking from 0.9 to 0.88
  • From dev release: fixed alpha AI core giving 44% bonus instead of 20%
[close]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 11:19:43 AM by SirHartley »
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RoquetheRogue

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2020, 11:52:45 AM »

This mod keeps getting better and better, I think I may found a reason why your salvage yards are incompatible with heavy industry, is that they also allow for custom manufactoring, that might as well be a reason why you allowed them to help players create their own ships and why it is causing CTD.

I think I may have found an dynamic way to create new salvage using a reliable sorce - Salvager Fleets - these are fleets the salvage yards spawn to collect resources in the system, consisting of shepards and/or Jury-rigged automated delerict ships, these spawned ships could help with the collection but also attract the attention of pirate fleets, either way, more salvage for the yards should pirate and salvage fleets get into combat and destroyed in the system, something Criminal industries allowed as to create player faction pirate fleets to help protect the system, which is very neat.

Using the same design philosphy, can we create Automated Robot Factory using gamma/alpha cores to build autonomous ships for the player faction? kinda like a Patrol HQ, but with remnant(alpha)/delerict (gamma) robot ships to protect the system instead, costly, probably causing some highly illegal infractions within the Hegemony, but if you're going to use AI Cores you are bound to get in trouble with the Hegemons sooner or later, AI cores influencing size and quality.

Variable Industries outputs to the player storage can get out of hand with their quantities, especially if you get rare ones like recreation drugs, I travelled for a bit only to return and find 2k of recreation drugs in player storage, it may need some balancing.

Thank you for your hard work SirHartley!
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2020, 01:22:31 PM »

Salvage yards are not incompatible with heavy industry, quite the opposite - they are very much intended to be built on the same planet, as the yards will increase your production budget regardless of the total colony ship hull output. No other modded industry currently does that. The crash was fixed with this version.

Salvage Points are gathered from the following sources:
- Destruction of fleets if the player is present in the system (can also be from AI vs AI combat)
- Pirate activity in the system
- Raids, failed and successful (this means any incursion by a hostile fleet - bombings, pirates, invasion)

Starsector despawns fleets as soon as you are out of range, so your proposal is sadly not feasible.

I honestly don't know about VPC output - I'm open to balance changes, but I haven't had anyone tell me it's too much up to now, so I'll assess that on the play through I'm doing atm. Thanks for the pointer!
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RoquetheRogue

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2020, 01:49:17 PM »

- Destruction of fleets if the player is present in the system (can also be from AI vs AI combat)
- Destruction of fleets if the player is present in the system (can also be from AI vs AI combat) How is it not doable, if that happens? what I've proposed from these AI fleets spawned from the Salvage Yards was exactly that above, AI versus AI while player is present, if no pirates are around, salvager fleets could wander around debris or around the system
I honestly don't know about VPC output - I'm open to balance changes, but I haven't had anyone tell me it's too much up to now, so I'll assess that on the play through I'm doing atm. Thanks for the pointer!
I think that if you reduced the player storage output by 70% or 60% it could potentially store in a more balanced form.

Using the same design philosphy, can we create Automated Robot Factory using gamma/alpha cores to build autonomous ships for the player faction? kinda like a Patrol HQ, but with remnant(alpha)/delerict (gamma) robot ships to protect the system instead, costly, probably causing some highly illegal infractions within the Hegemony, but if you're going to use AI Cores you are bound to get in trouble with the Hegemons sooner or later, AI cores influencing size and quality.
Can this be done at all? like, does StarSector allow the Player Faction to repurpose autonomous ships either by hacking or installing a AI core bound to the player faction? I read somewhere the knowledge to hack robotic ships could be taught by friendly alpha AI Cores (but that's all theory from what I have seen so far, but maybe if you built those ships yourself using advanced AI, it's an entire different take on the matter)

I imagine balacing outputs is a very difficult process, so, thank you for your time and hard work!
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2020, 02:44:06 PM »

Okay, I thought about your proposals, and if they would be in line with what I want for this mod.
I came to the conclusion that adding a worse version of the patrol HQ is not what I aim to do here - my focus is adding things that vanilla doesn't have. I can absolutely agree with your proposal of adding independent salvage fleets that fly around to gather stuff - this is fluff, but it would make the entire thing feel more alive. I put it on the list for optional future implementation.

For your second question - piloting AI ships - this will be implemented in the next version of vanilla, see here: https://twitter.com/amosolov/status/1168299595891466241
If you meant the faction taking and using AI ships? Technically, this is possible, but honestly - it's a novel idea, but kinda doesn't fit the scope of the mod.
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RoquetheRogue

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2020, 03:51:02 PM »

It's very interesting that there's a AI alpha core as a pilot there, there's potential, who knows Hacking could be a technology skill? I imagine You'll need something better than a RC controller to actually take over AI ships ;)

Anyways, back on topic.

Not taking and using AI ships, just a better or worse, depending on your wishes, a new type of "system security building/industry" that requires material resources (metals, transplutonics, volatiles), AI cores and other things to properly function, like a robotic/remnant patrol fleet, so you don't have to rely on the heavy-handed doctrine settings and imperfect human officer patrols with questionable portraits
(if you have mods like Interesting portraits player faction will inherit portraits from all factions),
that new robot factory could create robotic fleets controlled by a Alpha/gamma AI, assisted by the Supercomputer, requiring having these buildings in order to work/or just the Alpha AI CORE to manufacture AI fleets controlled by it
compared to the basic Patrol HQ it outputs a decent amount of robotic fleets to protect the system, pickets, armadas and other patrols, using AI portraits and depending on the AI core, using the AI CORES and puts that planet in constant risk with hegemony inspections,
Depending on the AI CORE you assign to the building you'll either have a bunch of fleets, but delerict-like, with poor AI officers, or remnant level high-tech ships with alpha level officers piloting these fleets your factory outputs, there are pros and cons of using such highly advanced forbidden buildings such as attracting the ire of the Pathers and Hegemony
for lore reasons, if you are a very advanced explorer faction and gathered lots of forgotten technology, you travelled very distant sectors, recruiting new people and growth in far off, remote colonies could be problematic, you would probably want to automate a lot of things to make up for the lack of personnel, so having these robot factories could reduce a bit the upkeep of crew in buildings of the colony so you can dedicate your people for industry while Robots Patrol your systems, and vice-versa 

Alternatively, instead of delericts and Remnant ships, that industry could build any blueprint ships you own and preferred, but instead of a human officer, you get an AI officer, with autonomous module ships. If that works best, plus any ordered ships built on that planet can have the autonomous ship module.. It's a bit of a late game building I would say.

Also I took a look at CK industries, some of the buildings there basically depopulate your planets.. Vatgrown Facilities I was refering a few comments back is a Organ Cloning Facility, basically which would be a process a bit like Cultured Meat, but for surrogate organs replacements further science devilry is that you can even grow people in vats (but that's absurd), also, no need to go around kidnaping and killing people like that industrial building from CK Industries, the other suggestion was the VPC for Volturn crabs, but I realize they would be  better in a Aquaculture farm, which is a industrial process of breeding sea-life, which in turn could create food (edible algae) and crabs

Hopefully I've managed to explain myself better, maybe these are in line with your vision of the your mod? maybe future considerations?
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PreConceptor

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2020, 06:46:25 PM »

Cool mod, really like the idea of VPCs, very thematic.

2 Questions -
1) Do you plan on adding VPCs for modded commodities if they're present in a game?
2) What's the 'AI-mode for non-player controlled markets' in the change log referring to?
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SirHartley

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2020, 02:35:52 AM »

Cool mod, really like the idea of VPCs, very thematic.

2 Questions -
1) Do you plan on adding VPCs for modded commodities if they're present in a game?
2) What's the 'AI-mode for non-player controlled markets' in the change log referring to?

1) Currently - no. Which one would you like to see?
2) Since the effects of some industries depend on player actions, they would not work on non-player controlled colonies. With this update, all of my industries now properly work even if not under player control, or if built by a non-player faction with Vayras' Sector or Nexerelin.
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deaxsa

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2020, 05:40:00 AM »

Do you know of any UI workarounds for the 12 display limit? I know I can queue everything I want up when I have 1 slot remaining, but that requires not changing them afterwards without undoing a lot of progress. Is there a way to add a scroll bar to the colony management screen? Or even just a single row more.
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RoquetheRogue

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2020, 07:16:41 AM »

Do you know of any UI workarounds for the 12 display limit? I know I can queue everything I want up when I have 1 slot remaining, but that requires not changing them afterwards without undoing a lot of progress. Is there a way to add a scroll bar to the colony management screen? Or even just a single row more.

Unfortunately we don't have anything to show more than 12 buildings in planets, it is a game limitation, we're hoping that the next SS update, or a mod, can fix this because 12 buildings only is very limiting, however if you want more buildings close to your planet, I recommend the Astropoli, you can build those using the Player Station Construction by boggled
https://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=17094.0
Astropolis are planet-like stations, they'll give you more 12 buildings around medium to huge sized planets, obviously it isn't very balanced and you can build 3 of these astropolis, it's a way to fix that annoying limitation if you have enough money.
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PreConceptor

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Re: [0.9.1a] Industrial.Evolution 1.2.a - Industries with non-standard effects
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2020, 09:56:47 PM »


1) Currently - no. Which one would you like to see?

Now that I think about it, forget I asked. All the ones I can think of have kinda unique origins and making them by VPC wouldn't really make sense, things like Shadowyards High Capacitance Storage or HMI's Nanite Mass
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Omnicast

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I'd like to request/suggest a few building types.

Some sorta Secret Police Headquarters that deals with Pather cells. Requires Marines/Weapons/Drugs to function. It only affects the planet it's built upon. The upgraded version covers the entire star system. You can only build one. Spawns Secret Police patrols. Basically this building makes it much harder to Luddic Pathers to get a foothold. It also removes them over time, but it's slower than the agent. Okay, I admit it needs a new name... Secret Police just sounds stupid.

Some kind of administrator building. Each building should add +1 to the administer limit. Maybe an upgraded version gives the Player +1 to the colony management limit?

Administrator Academy allows the training of Admins to level them up. Tuition fees are gonna cost you an arm and a leg though. Maybe it spawns new Admins every 3 months? So every 3 months you get a fresh batch of admins to sort through.

A Retaliation/Expedition building that commissions fleets to strike at pirate bases or luddic path bases? So when there's a threat it creates an event that prepares a fleet to deal with these colony threats. It starts to suck in Supplies/Fuel/Weapons/Ship Hulls/Crew/Marines/Credits and creates a large fleet to deal with these. Maybe it could also raid hostile factions and bring the loot back?

That's all I can think of for now. Hope these are good ideas.

Also two questions: Do you only need one Military Relay? If so why not make it a Unique?

The AI Core in the salvage yard has different effects? Ie either I pick Beta to remove the quality penalty or I pick Alpha for less salvage used and 10% less decay? Also in regards to the Beta Core in the Salvage Yard the fleet quality doesn't show if there's a decrease or increase.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2020, 11:15:13 PM by Omnicast »
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TFrenchCanadian

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I agree with Omnicast this would make colonies more useful but don't feel bad if you don't want to/can't, i am a already happy that i can use your mod and i just want to thank you for the time you put into making this.
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SirHartley

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@Omnicast -

These are worth consideration, thank you. I try to balance an industry with drawbacks, so should I make one of these they will not result in free stuff - Secret police would most likely result in a systemwide stability and pop growth penalty, for instance, or potentially cause rebellion.

Quote
Also two questions: Do you only need one Military Relay? If so why not make it a Unique?

You need to build a relay on every planet you want the effect on. It will only get the largest fleet size bonus of a planet with a relay, and only apply it to a planet with a relay.

Colonies in the system without this building are not affected by any bonuses whatsoever, and do not provide a bonus to other planets.

Quote
The AI Core in the salvage yard has different effects? Ie either I pick Beta to remove the quality penalty or I pick Alpha for less salvage used and 10% less decay? Also in regards to the Beta Core in the Salvage Yard the fleet quality doesn't show if there's a decrease or increase.

Yes, AI cores work like in Vanilla - you can only have one or the other.
Salvage yards apply a quality penalty - i.e. they reduce the ship quality. The penalty only shows up if there is no other colony with higher quality, due to how vanilla calculates that.
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Omnicast

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Thanks for the reply man. Hahaha I only built one relay... no wonder no one else in my star system got DirectTV or Dish. Oh well started a new run anyways thanks to the hull mod revival. This time I'll make sure my other planets get coverage too!  ;)
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