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Author Topic: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan  (Read 4623 times)

StarScum

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Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« on: February 09, 2020, 08:53:56 PM »

I want my faction to use ships exclusively from one of these two mods but I 'm not sure which to choose.

Both focus on carriers, which is fine. Carrier heavy fleets are my favorite.

Diable is really cool with the transforming ships and is unique with its focus on mechs, which I assume are better than regular fighters by and large. However, I just don't think it fits with the grittiness of Starsector. 

Dassault on the other hand is more conventional and seem's tailor-made for the carrier enthusiast. It even has a research capital which is nice seeing as I roleplay as a semi-mad doctor obsessed with AI. But it seems kinda ordinary compared to Diable, which is both a plus an a negative as that means it fits more with Star Sector.

I think a good way to decide is to ask if one or the other excels against the REDACTED since that's who my character ends up fighting the most. I dunno if thats a trick question or not; I feel everyone is supposed to be bad against the REDACTED.

If you had to choose one, which ones would you choose?
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TaLaR

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2020, 10:47:46 PM »

DME Normandy is excellent and DE carrier is fine too, but that's pretty much all they've got. Capital carrier is inferior to Astral yet costs 55DP, direct combat ships are all lackluster both for player and AI piloting. Design-wise they try to go for mobile burst strategy, but flux/shield/weapon stats are simply not there unlike with real burst factions (Blackrock, for example). That is unless you allow Blade Breaker sub-faction, which have excellent (and overpowered) direct fire ships.

Diable wanzers (mecha fighters) are absurdly OP, overshadowing vanilla Spark Drovers (unless they were nerfed since I last played). Most direct fire ships while generally unexciting to pilot are solid performers. Pandemonium is one of most powerful capitals and decently fun to pilot (skimmer-type ship system).
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StarScum

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2020, 11:04:53 PM »

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« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 11:06:48 PM by StarScum »
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StarScum

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2020, 11:06:20 PM »

DME Normandy is excellent and DE carrier is fine too, but that's pretty much all they've got. Capital carrier is inferior to Astral yet costs 55DP, direct combat ships are all lackluster both for player and AI piloting. Design-wise they try to go for mobile burst strategy, but flux/shield/weapon stats are simply not there unlike with real burst factions (Blackrock, for example). That is unless you allow Blade Breaker sub-faction, which have excellent (and overpowered) direct fire ships.

Diable wanzers (mecha fighters) are absurdly OP, overshadowing vanilla Spark Drovers (unless they were nerfed since I last played). Most direct fire ships while generally unexciting to pilot are solid performers. Pandemonium is one of most powerful capitals and decently fun to pilot (skimmer-type ship system).


I'm interested on your take regarding the Astra vs the DME capital carrier. On paper the DME ship seem superior with more weapons, speed, shields, flux, etc. It has a higher supply but thats to be expected of a superior ship, no?

Just to be clear, can you remember the last time you played with either mod? They might have been updated and re-balanced since.
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TaLaR

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2020, 11:23:44 PM »

Played few months ago.

Astral is 45 DP and recall system allows to cycle bombers at least twice faster while negating most potential losses.

DME cap is 55 DP and has token system for +25% damage vs target. Not useless, but there are better options: Afflictor (a frigate!) has +50% dmg system and for more direct comparison, some ORA carrier has extended range version of it too.
It's direct combat potential doesn't matter much - most of your OP will be spent on fighters and any direct fire capital will steamroll it anyway. Plus DME carrier-specific hullmod that gives fixed range bonus instead of ITU is fine for side-arms on smaller carriers (because it's given for free), but is a huge disadvantage if you actually attempt to do Legion-like direct-fire build (much less range).
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 11:25:20 PM by TaLaR »
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shoi

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2020, 12:40:11 AM »

Prefacing this is for the most part my opinion, I have both updated versions in my save right now
I like Diable more, but DME is stronger in probably every way. If you want proof of this, you can go look at the tournaments that have been held where DME consistently wins

super tl;dr

Diable: Strong fighters(They're not 'absurdly OP' though, unlike the other guy said, except for Zephyr - DME fighters will annihilate them up to the point of fighter death ball saturation, which is just expounded by DA since their fighters are very durable, but in fewer quantity), relatively flimsy ships

DME: Strong everything

what fits better or not is extremely subjective so i won't open that can of worms
« Last Edit: February 10, 2020, 12:42:21 AM by shoi »
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TaLaR

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2020, 12:48:48 AM »

Diable: Strong fighters(They're not 'absurdly OP' though, unlike the other guy said, except for Zephyr

But you don't need different fighters when spamming one type wins any fight in seconds. One extremely overpowered fighter/ship type is enough to break balance.
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Null Ganymede

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2020, 03:17:26 AM »

Diable ships are enjoyable as support for your flagship. Mix of flashy mobility skills, omni shields, interesting transformations/etc.

DME has cool flagships and solid carrier support.
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Stargazer86

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2020, 09:16:34 AM »

I'm not a big fan of either side's capital ships, really. DME's feel especially weak although Diable's also aren't all that spectacular either in my opinion. Truth be told, I joined up with the Kadur and have been having lots of fun with big dakka guns rather than messing around with Diable or DME's carriers. Wanzers aren't all that scary to me and I wouldn't be able to tell you if they're OP or not. In general, though, fighter/bomber spam only really appears to work well on ships that have the recall ability. It just makes them so much stronger.

DME's cruisers, on the other hand, I quite enjoy. The Kormoran and Baikal both make excellent combat ships and even the Wanderer is an great escort with a good energy loadout. Kadur cruisers/destroyers don't last long in my fleet so I mix and match. DME support ships with Kadur capitals and a couple Legions for a little fighter support.

As for Diable ships, I just can't make them work. They feel so much squishier than the other two and the Wanzers don't make up for it.
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Cyber Von Cyberus

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2020, 12:06:12 PM »

DME also has the Snow Goose, that thing is beastly and can fight against capitals too.
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SapphireSage

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2020, 10:31:08 PM »

Having played more then my fair share of DA and a playthrough of DME I will say its up to preference really. DA wanzers are strong but if they start taking losses then you won't see as much of them in the end of a fight, plus its harder to stack Hanger bays for them due to their much higher DP/hanger ratio. Zephyrs are more or less the bread and butter of their forces and incidentally my fighter-heavy DA fleets only really had issues against DME fleets largely due to their heavy usage of EMP causing them to flameout and crash. Having a fleet of battle carriers means having a subset of ships that won't fold immediately when engaged by others of the same size, not to mention that DA gets stronger the longer a fight goes. DA Recsons lend themselves well to stand offs with fighter heavy backup and can have a few front runners with Grave/Glowtusk combos for stronger sustained damage output.

DME has more traditional fighter wings and usage which I prefer. Although the DA Maelstrom is hands down the best and most versatile of all capitals and the Astral has the easiest to use system for its own fighters. The DME Jeanne D'Arc shouldn't be discounted in its own versatility. Its ship system applies to all damage to a ship, not just from you or your fighters with a nice 3000 range. This means it can also be used to assist other carriers' bombers too or to tip the scales in a nearby 1 v 1 or X v X in your side's favor by a whopping 25% damage with high uptime. And while it doesn't have the firepower or defenses to compete against a battle capital, it has enough shield strength and weaponry to reliably ward off cruisers and below making it a strong frontliner for battle line flanks in addition to what it can do independently with its 6 fighter bays. Its very slow to maneuver, but its multitude of tools allows it to project advantages in multiple locales as it needs to.

DME also has a much larger selection of fighter types available compared to DA even before blade breakers. Though if you include them, then last I checked the Brisance wings are vicious bombers running 2 2000 damage energy torpedos per wing, meaning that regardless of shielding or armor if the torpedo hits it hits hard. Aigrettes are very good at clearing out most other wings in-game, and Harridans can allow you to safely destroy any solo ship that doesn't have 360 shields. You can also use Rafale IIs as glorified Piranhas for station killing. Be aware that aside from the "experimental" ships DME doesn't have a very strong set of reliable frontline capability to hold a line for carriers due to all the range cutting, for the carriers unable to use ITU to the combat vessels that get ranges above X amount cut in half based on size.
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TaLaR

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2020, 10:40:00 PM »

DME also has the Snow Goose, that thing is beastly and can fight against capitals too.

Easy and pleasant to pilot, but not very impactful for a 20 DP ship. Not much firepower there, low risk - low reward.

As a super-DE I'd compare it to Blackrock Desdinova - costs 16 DP and brings all the firepower you'd ever need (but crappy shields, and while system makes it fast, Desdinova still handles like a brick on steroids). Harder to pilot, but much more rewarding when you do it right.
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Cyber Von Cyberus

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2020, 02:32:37 AM »

DME also has the Snow Goose, that thing is beastly and can fight against capitals too.

Easy and pleasant to pilot, but not very impactful for a 20 DP ship. Not much firepower there, low risk - low reward.

As a super-DE I'd compare it to Blackrock Desdinova - costs 16 DP and brings all the firepower you'd ever need (but crappy shields, and while system makes it fast, Desdinova still handles like a brick on steroids). Harder to pilot, but much more rewarding when you do it right.
Sadly I haven't seen any Desdinovas in my past playthroughs, I'll keep an eye out for it if it is as good as you claim.
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lethargie

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Re: Diable Avionics vs Dassault-Mikoyan
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2020, 06:04:36 AM »

Both are high quality very polished mods. Ive always had a slight dislike for DE because i dont like the blade breaker added with it, but the ships are fine.

Onr thing I do note is that I generaly find DA ship for fun to outfit/fly. The flicker core is a fun tool for a capital to master. You also have a cruiser that allow you to fly a fighter and the transforming frigate. If you load a lot of pd weapons you dont even need dedicated carrier.

DE is a bit more passive I found since its mostly carriers.
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