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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: Fleet size limit  (Read 7749 times)

Perq

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2020, 06:22:45 AM »

Careful what you wish for.  It could be like pre-0.7a, where you can have up to about 40 frigates (assuming max Leadership and maybe exceeding safe limits) or two or three capitals, or something between the two extremes.  Then we need overpowered Combat skills back to let our small "fleets" fight back against superior numbers, especially if fleet size is heavily dependent on Leadership.

Without fleet cap, it could be like 0.9a where pirate fleets sent sixty to one hundred small ships up to cruisers instead of ten Atlas 2s and twenty cruisers... per endgame fleet.

Fleet cap sort of stinks, but it is better for big ships now than before 0.7a when player could only drag about three of them and nothing else (smaller).

It seems that it was more of a problem with Leadership skill, and not the cap or frigates. As people have mentioned (those who have real arguments, and not "wOuLd yOu cOmPlaIn abOuT thAt In OthEr GaEms"), the cap for a fleet should be supplies/fuel, and not some arbitrary "slots". If you prefer to have one more capital ship for the same supplies cost instead of few frigates, why not?
I think that fleet limit isn't necessary at all if supply cost works the way its intended, including salvage and deployment.
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Plantissue

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2020, 06:49:22 AM »

WhY aRe YoU TyPiNg LiKe this? It makes it difficult to read.

Anyhow the fleet cap prevents you from adding every frigate hull you can recover in the early game. Whether that is an intended or not I do not know. I also do not know if there is a graphical limit on number of ships in a fleet as the number of ships you can deploy in a fleet is capped by DP anyways. I don't like the 30 ship limit as in the early game, you would normally want to add as many ships as you can recover into your fleet, even if it is something like loads of kites. It also discourages getting loads of shepherds which is what I am rather fond of.
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Grievous69

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2020, 06:52:23 AM »

It seems that it was more of a problem with Leadership skill, and not the cap or frigates. As people have mentioned (those who have real arguments, and not "wOuLd yOu cOmPlaIn abOuT thAt In OthEr GaEms"), the cap for a fleet should be supplies/fuel, and not some arbitrary "slots"
As Plantissue previously said, you're here just to stir things up. I wasn't even addressing you in this thread yet you're making fun of me TaLkIng LieK ThIs. I advise you to stop that hypocritical asinine behaviour.
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Please don't take me too seriously.

Megas

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2020, 09:26:14 AM »

My point was the fleet cap can be removed and replaced with an old-fashioned limit that varies by DP or similar stat (similar to pre-0.8a releases), and the limits would be calibrated low enough that you can safely bring about thirty frigates or fewer big ships.  That would be removing the current fleet cap and replacing it with a more limited cap.  Instead of bringing thirty ships of any size like now, you would bring either thirty small ships or less big ships.

I highly doubt Starsector will allow fleets with no upper bound (aside from computer dying) like in Endless Sky.  Especially when Starsector has a battlemap size, and fights can breakdown in weird ways once there are too many ships.

As for Leadership in previous releases, if you did not have any, your limits were between about five frigates or one Conquest (Paragon in 0.5.4a).  Anything more and you take penalties.  With max Leadership and Fleet Logistics, it was between thirty to forty frigates or two or three capitals.  Unskilled anything was weak, and skills were generally very powerful (though combat skills were defined more by perks).
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 09:28:11 AM by Megas »
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Alex

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2020, 10:06:31 AM »

@Perq, Grievous69: please stop sniping at each other.
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Morbo513

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2020, 11:35:57 AM »

My point was the fleet cap can be removed and replaced with an old-fashioned limit that varies by DP or similar stat (similar to pre-0.8a releases), and the limits would be calibrated low enough that you can safely bring about thirty frigates or fewer big ships.  That would be removing the current fleet cap and replacing it with a more limited cap.  Instead of bringing thirty ships of any size like now, you would bring either thirty small ships or less big ships.

I highly doubt Starsector will allow fleets with no upper bound (aside from computer dying) like in Endless Sky.  Especially when Starsector has a battlemap size, and fights can breakdown in weird ways once there are too many ships.

As for Leadership in previous releases, if you did not have any, your limits were between about five frigates or one Conquest (Paragon in 0.5.4a).  Anything more and you take penalties.  With max Leadership and Fleet Logistics, it was between thirty to forty frigates or two or three capitals.  Unskilled anything was weak, and skills were generally very powerful (though combat skills were defined more by perks).

Unless there's issues with having X ships in the fleet/refit menus, I don't think any further limitations would have to be imposed on the number of ships you can have, beyond the existing supply upkeep, the proposed supply/total DPs as fleet size limit. DPs already handle how many ships can be present in the battle at once well enough.
In other words, the number of ships you can deploy in combat doesn't change - the number you can have in reserve does.
For my own purposes, I'd want a large reserve of frigates along with my handful of heavier ships, so I can keep reinforcing that component of my deployed fleet as their CR degrades, they take casualties (which are almost guaranteed amongst frigates in end-game fights they're involved in) and damage and are retreated - and for the larger NPC fleets to be able to have the same capability.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 11:52:58 AM by Morbo513 »
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Perq

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2020, 06:23:57 AM »

It seems that it was more of a problem with Leadership skill, and not the cap or frigates. As people have mentioned (those who have real arguments, and not "wOuLd yOu cOmPlaIn abOuT thAt In OthEr GaEms"), the cap for a fleet should be supplies/fuel, and not some arbitrary "slots"
As Plantissue previously said, you're here just to stir things up. I wasn't even addressing you in this thread yet you're making fun of me TaLkIng LieK ThIs. I advise you to stop that hypocritical asinine behaviour.

I wanted to ignore this message, as in my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, but as it wasn't removed I assume it is "on topic", so I will.
- You're saying I'm here to stir things up, but all your post contains is some petty drama, without anything that even remotely connects to the topic,
- Your response to lack of arguments is that you wasn't talking to me, in thread that was created by me,
- And at the end of it all you call me a hypocrite. Are you serious?
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bobucles

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2020, 06:28:12 AM »

Protip: Don't go around fixing other people's life problems for free. You'll ruin the market.

Grievous69

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2020, 07:00:36 AM »

@Moderators
Please remove this guy from the forums since it's the third time he's trying to escalate things without any reasons (not to mention the insulting PMs). Just because he's being a douche to me doesn't make it ok.

Btw I'm not going to defend myself from the last hilarious post since it seems just defending yourself can get you in trouble so I'll leave it at this: Ignore the users that have a different opinion that you because you obviously can't handle that, I believe it would greatly improve your forum experience.
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Sundog

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Re: Fleet size limit
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2020, 05:21:13 PM »

This thread is now locked.

@Perq, Grievous69: Treating other users with respect is a requirement of participating in this forum. There are no exceptions, so the rule applies even to users who are breaking it. You can report such users, but you should not respond with hostility or disrespect. Alex told you both to stop sniping at each other, but you both continued to do so. Consider this an official warning.

@Grievous69: You have a PM.


@Moderators
Please remove this guy from the forums
In the future, please refrain from publicly requesting that specific users be banned. A report is sufficient.
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