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Author Topic: Make Personnel More Expensive  (Read 2026 times)

isyourmojofly

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Make Personnel More Expensive
« on: January 20, 2020, 01:14:19 AM »

I'd like to see the cost of hiring and paying crew increase. I suggest that crew purchases increase to 200C, and their monthly pay to 100C (this is what I've been playing with recently, and it may be a little too high, but it certainly makes the changes felt).

This has two main effects:

1) Running Costs: "upping" your fleet size is a much harder decision. You have to think much more carefully about whether that new destroyer is worth the running costs, or whether you can afford to invest in a cruiser. It's harder for ships to earn their place in your fleet, which I really enjoy. Investing in Efficiency Overhaul is a more attractive prospect, since it cuts your salary bill by 20%.

2) Losing crew is meaningful. A ship that goes down with all hands could cost you tens of thousands in crew alone. Therefore, Reinforced Bulkheads, Blast Doors, and other life-preserving effects become way more valuable. Since the same crew also pilot your strike craft, it makes spamming these a far less attractive option, too, and incentivises mods/perks/LPCs that keep casualties low.

On a related note, I would also significantly increase the cost of officers. 5,000 base, +1,000 per level. This means you only ever take perks if they're the ones you want. Currently you can just pick up a bunch of "whatever" perks. Some officers will hit a "skill ceiling" where the perks available to them just aren't ones you're willing to pay for. It's interesting to have officers who don't all hit level 20 eventually.
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DatonKallandor

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2020, 02:34:24 AM »

You might enjoy that experience but most people probably won't. And modding has handily solved the problem.
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isyourmojofly

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2020, 03:22:03 AM »

If I enjoy it, why wouldn't others?

What mods are you talking about?
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Grievous69

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2020, 03:28:25 AM »

If I enjoy it, why wouldn't others?
We have reached a new level of enlightenment ladies and gentlemen.

For example I'd hate that since I already think that mere existence of your fleet costs too much. Like you don't even have to fight or suffer losses, plain flying around eats up your resources like ***. Then if I were to say ''others clearly feel the same way as I do'' that would be extremely egocentric.
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isyourmojofly

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2020, 03:38:25 AM »

Well yes, it's a suggestion? I'm not sure what you're really getting at.

I don't think there's enough pressure on players in the early/mid game. It's so easy to scale up your fleet after hunting a few bounties or doing a few trades.
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Grievous69

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2020, 03:47:44 AM »

I don't think there's enough pressure on players in the early/mid game. It's so easy to scale up your fleet after hunting a few bounties or doing a few trades.
And DatonKallandor and I told you that not everyone thinks that way. I find the early game the most boring part by far, endless chases with small ships when you can only choose to attack the smallest enemy fleets. Also you don't HAVE TO buy a new ship as soon as you get the money, it's a choice. Besides, a ton of new players already struggle with early game. If you're that hardcore there's a starfarer mode for a reason.
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isyourmojofly

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2020, 04:16:45 AM »

OK - you wouldn't want to play it that way. That's cool, but beyond "I don't like that idea" you're not really contributing much.

I disagree on the early game, it's by far my favourite part. When every credit counts, when every ship matters, that's when I think this game is at it's best. My suggestion is to extend that part of the game.

Similarities to Spacer start are there, but my suggestions would give you much more control and more meaningful choices (which is what a good game does).
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Grievous69

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2020, 04:49:55 AM »

Your suggestion is literally ''make this thing more expensive'' which will only make it more of a grind. I remember there was also someone proposing that ship prices increase by 5 times or so, again to prolong the early game. None of this is ''making more meaningful choices'', it's just play longer the rinse and repeat game to get the same thing. And only then do you remove the choices, since if someone wants to play mid game as soon as possible he has to grind forever. I feel like this is a post made by EA. If you really want that pat on the back of feeling pride and accomplishmentâ„¢ there's a ton of f2p mobile games that will suit your needs just fine.
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isyourmojofly

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2020, 05:16:31 AM »

You already said you didn't like it. No need to keep on saying it!  ;)

FWIW, this isn't a simple grind. It makes *certain* playstyles more expensive . . . but there are ways to minimise the costs. Choices like the aforementioned hullmods become incentivised, while currently they're a bit throwaway. Carriers are costly to run, addressing the issue that they're extremely powerful.
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Plantissue

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2020, 06:59:06 AM »

Judging by a few threads when people have changed their settings.json file, most people change the game to make upkeep and the game vastly easier on themselves.

So according to that, making personnel less expensive would be the more enjoyable change.

Personally I don't see the point, as the changes will just make people play the safer, faster and more profitable bar and procurement missions instead of doing something fun like fight battles until they get a bunch of colonies up and running.
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Tartiflette

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2020, 07:38:23 AM »

I really like that suggestion personally. Like a lot of other people I think the early to mid game is the most interesting part of a campaign and it gets boring once you reach the end-game uber-fleets. I think it would work well coupled with a price reduction of the supplies. Effectively it would add an emphasis on the running cost of the fleet rather than deployment cost, without doubling down on the supply maintenance cost and all the cargo capacity troubles that come with it.
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bobucles

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2020, 09:19:12 AM »

There's plenty of players who pump their talent points into the industry tree to make their supplies go further. Economics is a huge part of game mastery, so it makes sense that difficulty settings should alter the economy in some way. Many mechanics center around supplies, so reducing overall supply costs and reducing the punishment of hazards would be effective. Similarly there could be a reduction in crew losses for easy difficulties.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2020, 09:21:03 AM by bobucles »
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Morbo513

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2020, 09:32:52 AM »

I really like that suggestion personally. Like a lot of other people I think the early to mid game is the most interesting part of a campaign and it gets boring once you reach the end-game uber-fleets. I think it would work well coupled with a price reduction of the supplies. Effectively it would add an emphasis on the running cost of the fleet rather than deployment cost, without doubling down on the supply maintenance cost and all the cargo capacity troubles that come with it.
I agree completely
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Alex

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2020, 09:56:53 AM »

I'll say, I like this in general but my concern would be really kicking someone when they're down - i.e. you've just lost a bunch of crew after a tough fight, and now need a ton of credits to even get a few working ships. It seems like it could result in a particularly unpleasant flavor of a death spiral. Will think about this some more, though.
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bobucles

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Re: Make Personnel More Expensive
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2020, 10:42:29 AM »

One of the mods (Nexx I think?) has an insurance system to protect against the death spiral. When the player suffers losses, they end up getting 50% or so worth of the losses placed back into their bank as an "insurance" payout. On easy difficulties that can solve just about any sort of issues that the player might suffer, so if they lose a lot they can still get 2/3 of its value back for example. Harder difficulties can tune the payout to be less significant, until hard mode where losses are straight up losses. As long as players don't find infinite money exploits from double dipping on insurance of course...
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