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[Grievous69]

If Atlas Mk II didn't have to leave everything out to snipe really well, then it wouldn't have been a 24 DP ship.

You misspelled Conquest there. What the hell does ''snipe really well'' even mean? Dying to a wet fart, 0 defenses against missiles and fighters, horrible speed (which you need to be a sniper). Not counting campaign stats even... Yeah it can in theory shoot down one cruiser and then it's just debris on the battlefield.

Why is it so much of an issue that that one variant doesn't have all mounts filled, then?

Because it's the only variant??? I mean you could theoretically make a different build for it but that's the same thing as trying to make an omelette from a shoe.

[Lucky33]

You can use all slots if you want too. You need ITU and full fleet ECM. If you will get that your 700 range and very flux efficient  guns will outrange cruiser with DTC. This way you can beat couple of Falcons and thats already above your weight.

[Locklave]

No one is arguing all hardpoints need/should to be filled.

Why is it so much of an issue that that one variant doesn't have all mounts filled, then?

Semantics... Fine, I'll indulge.

I never said they all had to be filled, no one did. It's been pointed out more then once that abandoning all those slots is required or the ship will lose viability. Abandon 10 of 12 gun hardpoints or be weaker. But feel free to continue to disingenuously pretend someone (me I guess) was arguing that all slots had to be used. You are not being a voice of reason, you are assuming thoughts and ideas not present in this thread let alone from me.

I believe the last few posts make this overly clear. If you continue to push the matter I can only assume you doing so with malicious non productive intent.

[Lucky33]

Semantics... Fine, I'll indulge.

I never said they all had to be filled, no one did.

But now we have to. I insist.

[bobucles]

For ships with more weapon slots than flux, PD is fairly effective. The flux efficiency of PD weapons is extremely high (0.2 or better) and they all tend to have very low OP costs. It's a pretty cheap investment and can save the ship from getting overwhelmed.

[DatonKallandor]

Pirate doctrine is to hit slow merchant fleets and escape with loot. Please don't slap meta "early game" thinking onto faction doctrines just because it suits you. Their "love" of slow ships is a bad design choice by the devs that break immersion and realism.
The Zombie pirates won't make it to the final version according to what I've read.

"Immersion and realism" is far less important than good game design. (Categorically) Fast pirates would be awful game design.

[Grievous69]

What do you mean ''would be'' awful game design? We already have the Luddic Path lol.

[TaLaR]

What do you mean ''would be'' awful game design? We already have the Luddic Path lol.

SO comes with serious weaknesses (plus it was actually kind of overpowered to capture and restore, when SO was built-in for free).
Naturally high speed has no drawbacks.

[Grievous69]

Gotta love when someone comes in just to say what a hullmod does, it's not like I've spent thousands of hours playing Starsector... And that's beside the point, Path ships are SO powerhouses while pirates have more glass cannon ships (except the Venture). I don't see why their capital has the same combat speed as a bloody Paragon, it's converted right? Where did all of the cargo go then? It still has the same crap engine, same crap shield, it just has the addition of some weapons it can't even afford to fire for more than 5 seconds. It's a metal pinata basically. You pop them one after another like they're not even cruisers, let alone a capital.

[Locklave]

What do you mean ''would be'' awful game design? We already have the Luddic Path lol.

LP ships are amazing because the Safety Override mod is free. Colossus Mk II for example is a monster of a ship.

By no means endgame ships but certainly early to lategame they are very strong and disposable.

"Immersion and realism" is far less important than good game design. (Categorically) Fast pirates would be awful game design.

1. How many slow ships do the Pirates have? 2 only. They don't love slow ships.
2. Immersion/realism matters and when done correctly doesn't impact good game design, they aren't mutually exclusive.
3. Pirates are fast, only their mega zombie fleets are slow because they include those 2 slow ships. So pirates must be "bad" according to you. 

In short pirates early game are fast because they lack those ships. Your words don't match reality. 

Path ships are SO powerhouses while pirates have more glass cannon ships (except the Venture).

100% this, they are crazy and even there most d mod covered trash has dangerous firepower. As they certainly should be.

[muffalo]

New player here and I didn't find pirates immersion breaking, the game seems to have 2 distinct types of pirates even now in the mid-late game: fast corsairs aiming for small traders, and big warlord fleets that don't care about speed and focus on overpowering military and raiding colonies. I don't see why this wouldn't fit pirate doctrine, I can definitely see some pirate somewhere saying "Let's take these Atlas-es, cram them with weapons and go try to overwhelm military on some fringe world". Or alternatively: "park next to entry point, send distress signal and blow up anything that comes through; it's not like a major Hegemony fleet will be passing by this random system".

[Locklave]

The immersion breaking stuff is the Pirate zombie fleets that suicide into rank 3 battle stations. Late game the pirates feels like a alien race with VASTLY greater population numbers like a swarm and worse technology. It's safe to assume Pirates want loot and survival, that is a pirate. The late game ones ignore both those things. The early game ones follow it.

Their big ships should still put more focus on speed, as those ships still need to catch merchant ships to get loot. Altlas Mk II should be faster*, Colossus Mk III should be faster*. That's logical to meet their goals. Players seeking cheap fast junk ships should see pirate ships as a natural choice and that's currently true for the most part.

*By faster I mean should be able to catch big slow merchant ships, simply better then 6 speed.

[DatonKallandor]

What do you mean ''would be'' awful game design? We already have the Luddic Path lol.

Pathers =/= Pirates. Pirates are the lowest tier enemies the game has, they're ubiquitious, generally slow, with usually bad ships that also have tons of D-mods. Pathers are the next step up in danger level in terms of enemy factions. Similar strategic speed as pirates, because of the d-mods, but a better selection of ships and more of a combat challenge because of SO. But they still field a lot of shieldless ships, so they're not quite at the level of the actual factions.