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Author Topic: Current Stuff that needs looked at  (Read 6657 times)

Nanostrike

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Current Stuff that needs looked at
« on: March 18, 2012, 02:49:38 PM »

This is just a short list of stuff that, IMO, needs to be looked at for gameplay and polish' sake in future updates.

Balancing
IN GENERAL, Tri-Tachyon ships are the best right now and not much can match them.  Adding some more useful Low-Tech and Midline ships is probably needed.

1) The Xyphos Heavy Fighter generates so much flux that it renders it's shield almost useless.  It also lacks enough speed, hull, and armor, and squad size to make it survivable.  It frequently loses to much weaker fighters and non-point-defense Destroyers/Frigates.  Boosting these fighters by adding some speed, armor, flux dissapation, or something similar is needed.

2) The Trident has similar issues.  Due to slow speed, weak hull, a near-useless shield, and small squad size, it seldom survives more than a single torpedo run.  They need slightly more speed and armor to be usable.  Currently the Dagger torpedo bombers are superior to them in almost every way, including raw damage-per-torpedo-run, squad size, and speed.

3) The Longbow Support Fighters are junk.  They don't seem to do anything and have almost no survivability.  I don't know what exactly needs done, but SOMETHING does.

4) The Brawler is too slow and cumbersome to catch any Frigates that they could destroy.  And they don't have the shields/armor to tackle anything big enough for them to catch.  Also, lack of any rear defenses makes them missile bait.

5) The Sunder has armor and hull far too weak for it's size and tends to die very early in a battle.

6) Broadsword Heavy Fighters are too good.  Their dual MGs overload shields on even capital ships in seconds, leaving them helpless.  It almost lets them effortlessly destroy Xyphos' and Tridents.

7) Thunder Heavy Fighters need a bit of adjustment too.  They're already the fastest fighters in the game, with good Armor and Hull, but their real issue is that their ion-cannon weapon lets them disable other fighters in only a couple of shots, making them artificially good at taking out almost every other fighter out there.


Gameplay/Bugfixes
1) Some mechanic to lock Omni-shields in place.  I have a topic created about this.  (http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=1710.0)

2) Fix the annoying bug where something shows up on sensors, but when you go to the tactical map, it vanishes as "Out of range"

3) Fix the bug where multiple fighters try to dock at the same carrier, ignoring all others (To be fair, this doesn't seem to occur very often for me anymore, but it does still occasionally occur!)

4) Allow right-clicking on ships in the tactical map to have the camera follow them the same way it does if you left-click (Which opens a menu), then close the menu.  This would allow snapping between ships easily if you're "Commanding" more than fighting in a battle.

5) Make PD weapons able to focus exclusively on Point Defense (Anti-Fighter and Anti-Missile) tasks, so they don't waste time, ammo, and flux on big targets they hardly hurt.


Content
1) More Strike Weapons, including some sort of ballistic non-bomb Strike Weapon.

2) More Medium Missiles.  Currently, we really only have the Pilum and some Pod versions of small missiles.  Adding some new, unique missiles (Or torpedos!) would be great.  Maybe even adding some 1-shot versions of Large missiles like the MIRV.

3) "Missileboat" Frigates and Destroyers.  Lots of missile slots, few other weapon slots.

4) Some sort of AoE Energy PD weapons, similar to Flak.

5) Some "Fast" Low-Tech and Midline ships that can match Hyperions and Tempests in speed, if not efficiency.

6) More, better armed Low-Tech Frigates that have firepower to rival Hyperions and Tempests.  Currently the only Low-Tech ships that field Medium hardpoints are the Brawler and Hound, and the only Midline is the Vigilance.  We need low-tech and midline ships that are as known and feared as the Hyperion and Tempest.  Some definitively purposed "Strike" and "Assault" ships would be ideal.

7) More "Slow, but powerful" High-Tech ships.  Currently they're all about hit and run.  They need some that are about staying power and endurance.

8) More versatility in the tech levels in general.  For example, low-tech lacks a "Fast attack" frigate, high-tech lacks any carrier but the Astral, any frighters/tankers whatsoever, and any Destroyer but the Medusa.

8) More "Ambient Fleets" that do their own thing.  Miner fleets that hang around Asteroids and fight back with mining drones, mining blasters, and mining lasers.  Merchant fleets full of Buffalos, Geminis, and Atlas' move between stations and are juicy, but heavily-defended targets.  The infamous Cult of Lud could even make an appearance.

9) Cruiser-Sized dedicated Carriers with 2 Flight Decks.  Currently it jumps from the 1-flight deck dedicated Destroyer Carriers to the 3-flight deck Astral dedicated carrier Capital Ship.

10) A "War Room", where you can set up and save your own customized missions.

11) A "Tech Room", where you can set up and save your own customized Ship Variants, which can be used in missions or loaded in-game.  It would feature a...

12) "Testing Simulator", where you can try out variants of ships, either against static targets or in mock battles, to see how they handle, how their weapons work, how the flux builds, ect...before you take them into the field.



I'm not picking on the game or criticizing anything.  I'm just saying that these few things would make for a MASSIVE improvement for me, IMO, and shouldn't be too outlandish to work towards.
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Thaago

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2012, 03:46:12 PM »

Quote
6) More, better armed Low-Tech Frigates that have firepower to rival Hyperions and Tempests.  Currently the only Low-Tech ships that field Medium hardpoints are the Brawler and Hound, and the only Midline is the Vigilance.  We need low-tech and midline ships that are as known and feared as the Hyperion and Tempest.  Some definitively purposed "Strike" and "Assault" ships would be ideal.

I agree with this, but remember that small ballistics are much more fearsome than small energy weapons and take up less space than medium energy. Take a look at the railgun, now there's a deadly weapon against shields.

Personally I don't see what all the fuss about the Hyperion is about... its incredibly expensive for a rather small amount of firepower... this is of course my own personal opinion and everyone else disagrees with me, so its probably actually a kickass ships that I just suck with  ;D
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 04:36:39 PM by Thaago »
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harrumph

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2012, 03:54:07 PM »

1) More Strike Weapons, including some sort of ballistic non-bomb Strike Weapon.

4) Some sort of AoE Energy PD weapons, similar to Flak.

5) Some "Fast" Low-Tech and Midline ships that can match Hyperions and Tempests in speed, if not efficiency.

6) More, better armed Low-Tech Frigates that have firepower to rival Hyperions and Tempests.  Currently the only Low-Tech ships that field Medium hardpoints are the Brawler and Hound, and the only Midline is the Vigilance.  We need low-tech and midline ships that are as known and feared as the Hyperion and Tempest.  Some definitively purposed "Strike" and "Assault" ships would be ideal.

7) More "Slow, but powerful" High-Tech ships.  Currently they're all about hit and run.  They need some that are about staying power and endurance.

8) More versatility in the tech levels in general.  For example, low-tech lacks a "Fast attack" frigate, high-tech lacks any carrier but the Astral, any frighters/tankers whatsoever, and any Destroyer but the Medusa.

I like some of your ideas, but I strongly disagree with this push towards homogenization. I like that there are things ballistic weapons can do that energy weapons can't, and vice versa; I like that the ship designs from different eras follow different design principles. If you want a big ship that's about staying power and endurance, you get a Dominator or an Onslaught. You seem to be treating the different sets of ships as though they're from mutually exclusive factions, which they're not.

IN GENERAL, Tri-Tachyon ships are the best right now and not much can match them.  Adding some more useful Low-Tech and Midline ships is probably needed.

The high-tech ships aren't the sole property of the Tri-Tachyon Corporation; TT just prefers to use them and has the resources to build and maintain them (the fluff text for the Astral, for instance, says that they serve in the Hegemony fleet, albeit in limited numbers). The way the placeholder campaign is set up, yeah, Tri-Tachyon gets all the techy blue stuff and the Hegemony mostly the hulking low-tech gear, but I'm sure there will be more variation in the eventual 1.0 release (plus, you know, more ships in general, and more factions, including the Cult of Lud).

The high-tech ships are the most recent designs, and they are, explicitly, the most technologically advanced. That doesn't make them the best in all circumstances, though, and it does make them (or will make them in the final game) the rarest, most expensive, and hardest to come by. In fact, right now the Hyperion and Tempest cost as much as the midline cruisers.

Also, take a look at the first three points on your list, following "Tri-Tachyon ships are the best"—criticisms of three of the five high-tech fighter wings, all of which Tri-Tachyon use. You then call for two of the midline fighters to be nerfed. So, you know, the high-tech/low-tech disparity isn't so bad across the board.
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Iscariot

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2012, 04:04:48 PM »

7) More "Slow, but powerful" High-Tech ships.  Currently they're all about hit and run.  They need some that are about staying power and endurance.

Um, Paragon?

EDIT: I should go a little further. I've already mentioned that the Paragon's existence bothers me, and like harrumph, I strongly oppose the homogenization of things in general. High Tech ships are fast but frail- that the Paragon is different sticks out like a sore thumb. It's also the defining trait of their Epoch, and I don't think that should change.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2012, 04:06:21 PM by Iscariot »
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The idea is that the various tech levels represent different - not "better" - ways to do things.

Nanostrike

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2012, 09:04:16 PM »

I thought the Paragon was a nice mix-up for the always-speedy high-tech stuff, showing that even with all the shiny stuff, they can still pack on some firepower.  I don't think it should be their only "Battleship" type capital ship, but it definitely fits in a sort of "Deathstar" type way.  Anyways...


I'm not meaning to make everything the same.  I probably came out all wrong on that part.

I meant that in the High-Tech lineup, everything is about hit and run right now.  It'd be nice to see a slower (Though still at least equal in speed to most low-tech stuff), but more direct-assault focused ship.  I'm not saying make it REALLY slow.  It'd still be speedy.  At least equal to most low-tech or midline, but compared to the other high-tech stuff, it'd be slower, but have heavier shields and weapons.

Just like it'd be nice to see some faster Low-Tech ships.  They won't outrun the fastest high-tech stuff by any means, but they'll be able to at least compete and could really mix up low-tech engagements.  I'm not saying give everyone everything, but it'd be nice to have more options within an epoch.  Currently there are only a few ships in each Epoch and having more, with more diversity, would be awesome.

Plus, it'd be nice to at least fill some holes in the fleet lineup.  For example, currently there's no high-tech bomber, no low-tech Torpdeo bomber, and no midline versions of either.  Hell, there's only one high-tech Destroyer, period.  I just like seeing VARIETY.  Having multiple types of each ship to choose from, each with their own pros, cons, quirks, and particular style, in each tech epoch would be perfect.

And right now, it's "If you have the money for it, get high tech because it's the best" in most categories.  Some way of breaking that up would be nice.  The argument of "Well, you can afford 3 lashers for the price of that Tempest" doesn't really work because, in reality, that Tempest could probably eat 3 lashers for breakfast.  And those 3 lashers are taking up 3 times the FP of the tempest, eating 3 times the fuel, and causing 3 times the slowdown due to fleet size...
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Iscariot

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2012, 05:07:18 AM »

Ah, well I can agree to that.

Definitely more fighters. I'd love to see the successor to the broadsword..... I don't think there is a midline superiority fighter.
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Temjin

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2012, 06:49:16 AM »

Ah, well I can agree to that.

Definitely more fighters. I'd love to see the successor to the broadsword..... I don't think there is a midline superiority fighter.

The Thunder.
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Iscariot

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 07:19:54 AM »

Ah, well I can agree to that.

Definitely more fighters. I'd love to see the successor to the broadsword..... I don't think there is a midline superiority fighter.

The Thunder.

....is technically classified as multirole. While, yes, it is badass as all hell and therefore probably the best interceptor in the game, it is not a superiority fighter because it carries anti-ship missiles (missile, actually), and has an ion cannon which, while serviceable for fighter interdiction, is more suited to EMP-*** full sized ships.

If I were to design a midline superiority fighter, I'd ditch the harpoon and ion cannon, give it a dual MG, and maybe make it even faster.
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Nanostrike

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2012, 10:59:55 AM »

The thunder is currently the fastest fighter in the game, but still has good hull and armor, a 3-fighter squad size, and an armor-bypassing EMP weapon to disable other fighters.

It shouldn't be called a Multi-Role fighter, IMO.  It should be called a "Space Superiority Fighter", because against everything but Xyphos', that's what it is.  Anything it can't outgun, it can outrun.  The things eat Talons and Broadswords for breakfast and most Bombers don't even have a chance.

Even weaker ships like the Hound and Buffalo can be disabled and harpooned by them.  It's a little over the top.

Broadswords are still worse, though.  So sick of seeing a Cruiser or Capital ship have to choose between being overloaded or taking 500+ damage to the armor from 500 1-damage MG rounds peppering them.  Talons have a similar "Peppering armor apart" effect, but at least you can largely block their damage with shields due to it being Fragmentation.  That's not the case with Broadswords and their insane Kinetic DPS.  It even gives them an artificial advantage over "Better" shielded fighters like the Xyphos and bombers like the Trident.

Honestly, balancing Broadsword would make the biggest and most positive change to the game that I can think of right now.
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Iscariot

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2012, 11:06:10 AM »

Well, in all fairness one of the roles in the 'multirole' could be 'space superiority' ;)

But yeah, I do agree. Still, I was talking about a dedicated midline space superiority fighter, which would, ironically, be less broken than the Thunder is now.

In regards to the Broadsword, I agree absolutely that they're kind of broken, but I will comment that I've never been on the receiving end of that brokenness. Hegemony fleets seem to undervalue them.
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Alex

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2012, 11:10:22 AM »

That's not the case with Broadswords and their insane Kinetic DPS.  It even gives them an artificial advantage over "Better" shielded fighters like the Xyphos and bombers like the Trident.

Quick note here - without making a statement about their relative merits - the Xyphos isn't supposed to be "better" than the Broadsword. Higher-tech isn't the same as "better", just means it goes about things in a different way.
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harrumph

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2012, 11:18:01 AM »

Honestly, balancing Broadsword would make the biggest and most positive change to the game that I can think of right now.

How about just bumping their FP cost up to, say, 8? I think a big part of their strength right now is that they're the cheapest proper fighter (sorry, Talons and Wasps).
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Iscariot

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2012, 11:19:51 AM »

Hey! I love Wasps. They're great point defense :D Also, I don't feel bad when they die.
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Upgradecap

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2012, 11:21:41 AM »

Hey! I love Wasps. They're great point defense :D Also, I don't feel bad when they die.
I don't feel bad when any of my ships die..... :)
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Iscariot

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Re: Current Stuff that needs looked at
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2012, 11:28:38 AM »

Eh, I feel a pang when I lose more valuable crew in a fight than I gain. That goes in the loss column for me. Credits are disposable, vets and elites need time to grow, like itty bitty plants.
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