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[TaLaR]

The medusa is not a frigate. The falcon (pirate falcon or normal falcon) is not a destroyer. They are both ships which are useful but I don't see the use of calling them something they are not. Otherwise you might as well claim that the Conquest is the best cruiser. What's the point? Only the pirate falcon has burn 11. The normal falcon has 9.

Because Falcon(P) can do most things other DEs can do, with 9 Burn on map and close enough in-combat speed. I'm specifically saying (P) because adding expensive cruiser-sized UI on OP-starved base Falcon just doesn't work nearly as well as getting it for free, plus base doesn't have nearly as much firepower.

Falcon(P) is imo the best non-phase player ship for Burn 9-11 fleet in vanilla campaign, as long as cost-efficiency and availability is also considered (otherwise Augmented Drive Paragon would also be an option).

[Arcagnello]

The sunder does look appealing. It's something that made me retire all the itty bitty phase frigades I used to deploy since it would be able to effectively chase em down and kill them without my card, and we can't have that heh

[IAmLegion]

Additionally, Hardened Shields lowkey makes the Medusa able to outfight medium cruisers easily.

[Arcagnello]

Yep, altough I decided to go for the Front Shield modspec instead since the ship really, really has to take care of its hull and prevent ANYTHING from even slightly tapping it 

[Plantissue]

The medusa is not a frigate. The falcon (pirate falcon or normal falcon) is not a destroyer. They are both ships which are useful but I don't see the use of calling them something they are not. Otherwise you might as well claim that the Conquest is the best cruiser. What's the point? Only the pirate falcon has burn 11. The normal falcon has 9.

Because Falcon(P) can do most things other DEs can do, with 9 Burn on map and close enough in-combat speed. I'm specifically saying (P) because adding expensive cruiser-sized UI on OP-starved base Falcon just doesn't work nearly as well as getting it for free, plus base doesn't have nearly as much firepower.

Falcon(P) is imo the best non-phase player ship for Burn 9-11 fleet in vanilla campaign, as long as cost-efficiency and availability is also considered (otherwise Augmented Drive Paragon would also be an option).

What is the function of a destroyer hull is to you? What is it that "DEs" can do? That is the missing part of your reasoning. If you wrote that it is for ship at least xyz speed with certain weapon characteristics, then there might be an argument there, to say that a ship counts as a hull type that it is not, but ships in starsector don't fall under categories like that. For instance the idea that someone can call the Medusa a frigate is absurd to me, as it doesn't follow the unique ability of a frigate, which is that it can enter at the sides of a battlefield in a pursuit battle. Likewise the word destroyer holds no meaning to me other than a descriptor of a hull type in starsector except as some attributes in hullmods. So what is a destroyer to you?

[Tackywheat1]

Who needs a Paragon when you have 4 Lance Sunders?

[Arcagnello]

Who needs a Paragon when you have 4 Lance Sunders?

-preventing AyyLmao battleships with Skimmer from istagibbing anything without an imbashield
-outranging fortresses
-cleaning 200 (or even higher if they're mostly small units)FP fleets by itself if you don't feel like micromanaging carriers and cruisers
-looking damn fine
-imma firing mah tachyon lazor


P.S: I find the sunder most disgusting with a plasma cannon and railguns/needlers

[Lucky33]

Who needs a Paragon when you have 4 Lance Sunders?

-cleaning 200 (or even higher if they're mostly small units)FP fleets by itself if you don't feel like micromanaging carriers and

Wait wha...

I think something has to be done with the "IMMA DEPLOIN' MAH PARAGON WALL" mentality.

People dont even bother to actually play the action part of the game. They just want a movie.

[Arcagnello]

I've admitted my sin, but I really only even do that when there's a pirate/luddic path  base litterally smothered by multiple big defending fleets and I have to destroy all of them individually. I can let the Paragon do the grinding while I do other stuff, while I can actually enjoy the game when I get actually interesting/difficult battles

[Lucky33]

In the prev. version default battle size was 200. Try it. Most of the battles will suddenly become interesting. For the obvious reason - you cant push single button to win and have to actually think and act.

[bobucles]

I think something has to be done with the "IMMA DEPLOIN' MAH PARAGON WALL" mentality.

Does there really? It's slow, it's expensive, it depends on finding all the rare drops, and it's boring. If players insist on spending all their efforts into going full Paragon, there's not much you can do to stop them.

On the other hand... getting a default 360 degree omni shield, high levels of armor, superb offense, excellent PD, low crew requirements, an ability that clears out soft flux and good fuel efficiency in an all-in-one super fortress is pretty powerful. A vanilla paragon has no clear weak points, and it doesn't need hull mods to cover for weak points. It's truly a beast.

[Arcagnello]

I personally think the Paragon suffers from it's inability to get from an enemy to another. You could manually run a civilian shuttle behind it while it's focused on lasering something with a fair amount of bull integrity and it will spend a full minute pathetically trying to turn and melt the shuttle on its back like a grossly obese manatee attempting to see if his back paddles rely exist, all the while it's frontal laser weapons are shooting at things all over the place, therefore not accomplishing anything useful.

Not even the mandatory auxillary thrusters modspec can fix that.

[Lucky33]

I think something has to be done with the "IMMA DEPLOIN' MAH PARAGON WALL" mentality.

Does there really? It's slow, it's expensive, it depends on finding all the rare drops, and it's boring. If players insist on spending all their efforts into going full Paragon, there's not much you can do to stop them.

On the other hand... getting a default 360 degree omni shield, high levels of armor, superb offense, excellent PD, low crew requirements, an ability that clears out soft flux and good fuel efficiency in an all-in-one super fortress is pretty powerful. A vanilla paragon has no clear weak points, and it doesn't need hull mods to cover for weak points. It's truly a beast.

Its not about stoping anybody. Im thinking about some sticky topic named something like "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Paragon" where anybody can express their joy of injecting full load of Paragons into battle for the very first time in their lifes.

[Plantissue]

I personally think the Paragon suffers from it's inability to get from an enemy to another. You could manually run a civilian shuttle behind it while it's focused on lasering something with a fair amount of bull integrity and it will spend a full minute pathetically trying to turn and melt the shuttle on its back like a grossly obese manatee attempting to see if his back paddles rely exist, all the while it's frontal laser weapons are shooting at things all over the place, therefore not accomplishing anything useful.

Not even the mandatory auxillary thrusters modspec can fix that.

Not really. It does have 2 medium energy at its rear afterall. The 2 large side turrets can also shoot behind as well. Unlike most capitals, it shouldn't have any problems whatsoever to the rear. Even if it was only 2 graviton beams shooting at the rear, 400 soft flux is more than any frigate can bear.