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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Planet Search Overhaul (07/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v9.0.8)  (Read 1199641 times)

Cellular

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2940 on: August 20, 2023, 01:48:07 PM »

Absolutely amazing mod, just one small question though, is there a reason (such as balance or whatnot) to why mining stations cant be built say, around a planet? I have this volcanic planet that got mega deposits, but i don't want to deal with its 225 haz...
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2941 on: August 20, 2023, 01:49:59 PM »

Absolutely amazing mod, just one small question though, is there a reason (such as balance or whatnot) to why mining stations cant be built say, around a planet? I have this volcanic planet that got mega deposits, but i don't want to deal with its 225 haz...


I'm glad you're enjoying TASC!

This was done for balance reasons and because astropolis stations already fill the role of being built in orbit around planets.
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Lupin III.

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2942 on: August 22, 2023, 12:38:26 PM »

I definitely don't want to hide projects that aren't possible on a given planet - the player should be able to view those projects and the requirements, and why they can't be done. Similarly, hiding planets where no projects can be started would prevent the player from viewing the possible projects and their requirements. I know most players won't read a lengthy forum post explaining the terraforming system, so I think showing players the projects and their requirements (even those that can't be done) in-game is the best way to teach them how the system works.
Sure, people have to get from somewhere, how the mod works. But in my opinion always showing all options does the opposite, because it is distracting or confusing.

Of course there is a difference between things that can't ever be done and those which can't be done because of missing prerequisites. The former should just not be shown, because that is how the game does it everywhere else (if you can't trade with a market because you're hostile, the entry isn't there; if there aren't any messages for certain intel tabs, those tabs aren't shown; aso.). E. g. if a climate is already "mild" there is no point in still showing the entry. If a planet isn't irradiated, toxic, without right density, with extreme weather there's no point in showing the respective entries. If all atmospheric conditions are optimal, hide the "atmospheric conditions improvement options" menu entry (or show it greyed, with a tooltip of paraphrasing "all done"). The same for resource improvement. If a resource is already maxed, no point in showing the option. If all resources are maxed, hide the "resource improvement options" (or again show it greyed out). The same with planet type change options. You can't change a hot planet into a frozen world.

This could also be a kind of way to find "done" planets. If a planet is habitable and there aren't any atmospheric conditions and resources to improve, only show it in the "all planet" list.

Regarding changing the color of the entries, it might be confusing to players why an entry is a certain color until they've used the menu a lot and learned the meaning of the colors, but by that point they'll already know the requirements for the different projects.
That's for the actions that can't be done because of missing prerequisites. It doesn't necessarily have to be red, green, yellow aso. But Colorcoding is also done in the game in a lot of places. If you don't have enough story points or credits or resources to perform an action the entry/button is there, but greyed out. That's also a form of color coding and pretty universal. Usually when you try to select/activate such an entry anyway, that's when you get that "not possible sound", a message or tooltip why it can't be done.

I'm not sure printing which buildings are missing before the player enters into a menu is a good idea. It will clutter up the text panel and might be confusing if there are projects with different building requirements.
That was an alternative to color coding.

My point is usability. Currently there is A LOT of clicking and going through menus only to find out that most of the actions CAN'T be performed. This becomes especially tedious if you have 10 or more colonies, where remembering what you already did on what planet or want to do is pretty much impossible (unless you're some kind of genius in memorizing stuff). If I come back to a game after a few days, it becomes a game of trial and error going through almost every menu for almost every planet to "learn" where I was when I left off.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing the functions of the mod. In my opinion Startsector doesn't feel complete without it and I'll use it in any case!
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2943 on: August 22, 2023, 03:57:03 PM »

But in my opinion always showing all options does the opposite, because it is distracting or confusing.

Trust me, the alternative would be worse. Players would expect to see a certain project, and when they don't see it, they would come here and report it as a bug that it's missing, not knowing that one of the requirements is impossible for that planet.

My point is usability. Currently there is A LOT of clicking and going through menus only to find out that most of the actions CAN'T be performed. This becomes especially tedious if you have 10 or more colonies, where remembering what you already did on what planet or want to do is pretty much impossible (unless you're some kind of genius in memorizing stuff). If I come back to a game after a few days, it becomes a game of trial and error going through almost every menu for almost every planet to "learn" where I was when I left off.

I totally agree with this criticism and I intend to try to improve the terraforming menu in my next major patch.

Although the terraforming menu is not ideal in its current state, I wasn't able to find a better way to implement it. Ideally it would be part of the colony management screen, but I don't think that's feasible without overwriting vanilla files, which I want to avoid.
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Droll

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2944 on: August 22, 2023, 04:19:47 PM »

But in my opinion always showing all options does the opposite, because it is distracting or confusing.

Trust me, the alternative would be worse. Players would expect to see a certain project, and when they don't see it, they would come here and report it as a bug that it's missing, not knowing that one of the requirements is impossible for that planet.

My point is usability. Currently there is A LOT of clicking and going through menus only to find out that most of the actions CAN'T be performed. This becomes especially tedious if you have 10 or more colonies, where remembering what you already did on what planet or want to do is pretty much impossible (unless you're some kind of genius in memorizing stuff). If I come back to a game after a few days, it becomes a game of trial and error going through almost every menu for almost every planet to "learn" where I was when I left off.

I totally agree with this criticism and I intend to try to improve the terraforming menu in my next major patch.

Although the terraforming menu is not ideal in its current state, I wasn't able to find a better way to implement it. Ideally it would be part of the colony management screen, but I don't think that's feasible without overwriting vanilla files, which I want to avoid.

You might already have done this for all I know but perhaps the folks responsible for Grand Colonies could help. After all, that mod modifies the UI of the colony management screen and adds a scroll bar. As an example - Maybe they'll know how to add a terraforming button there.
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2945 on: August 22, 2023, 05:19:14 PM »

But in my opinion always showing all options does the opposite, because it is distracting or confusing.

Trust me, the alternative would be worse. Players would expect to see a certain project, and when they don't see it, they would come here and report it as a bug that it's missing, not knowing that one of the requirements is impossible for that planet.

My point is usability. Currently there is A LOT of clicking and going through menus only to find out that most of the actions CAN'T be performed. This becomes especially tedious if you have 10 or more colonies, where remembering what you already did on what planet or want to do is pretty much impossible (unless you're some kind of genius in memorizing stuff). If I come back to a game after a few days, it becomes a game of trial and error going through almost every menu for almost every planet to "learn" where I was when I left off.

I totally agree with this criticism and I intend to try to improve the terraforming menu in my next major patch.

Although the terraforming menu is not ideal in its current state, I wasn't able to find a better way to implement it. Ideally it would be part of the colony management screen, but I don't think that's feasible without overwriting vanilla files, which I want to avoid.

You might already have done this for all I know but perhaps the folks responsible for Grand Colonies could help. After all, that mod modifies the UI of the colony management screen and adds a scroll bar. As an example - Maybe they'll know how to add a terraforming button there.

Grand Colonies uses some very complex code to make the industry scroll bar work. I'm not sure I could figure it out, and even if I could, it might cause problems with Grand Colonies itself or other mods also using reflection that try to modify the same classes.
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raco12

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2946 on: August 24, 2023, 05:24:29 PM »

Just wanted to ask a few questions and also say the mod is amazing as always!

There's a condition named meteor impacts that gives 50% hazard rating. TASC is planing to add some terraforming project to fight this hazard or eliminate it? It can be in the form of some planet defense that destroys the asteroids before they land on a planet.

It could be locked as others research projects if vaults of knowledge is active on the game. This could be a good addition because there's vanilla planets like Maxios on the Magec System that have history and can be settled down for roleplay reasons and terraform it to make it habitable again.

Second, there's a plan of adding an terraforming project that eliminates or mitigates the deciviliced population hazard? Like a quick one that fast, and cheap way that eliminates the dissidents but at the cost of not receiving bonuses in population and maybe causing riots or a rebelion on the planet. Maybe a peaceful option increase the grow rate of the colony but is way expensive than the other one.

In the description of the chamaleon, it says it eliminates dissident populations and when I use it on a colony that has this hazard threat, it doesn't do it at all. Maybe this could be added.

I'm also pointing out that with the vaults of knowledge mod, then you have solar reflectors or the mining drones on a Station, and you use the upgraded version farm and mining industries from VOK, the +2 Bonus of farming and the bonuses from the mining drones won't give also any bonuses if the industries are upgraded.

Lastly, on my last playthrough, the chamaleon didn't work at all, causing me to use story points if I wanted to move the IA of one planet to another.

As always you mod is the best in terms of terraforming and the potential is huge.

Thanks for your hard work.
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2947 on: August 25, 2023, 07:18:28 AM »

Just wanted to ask a few questions and also say the mod is amazing as always!

There's a condition named meteor impacts that gives 50% hazard rating. TASC is planing to add some terraforming project to fight this hazard or eliminate it? It can be in the form of some planet defense that destroys the asteroids before they land on a planet.

It could be locked as others research projects if vaults of knowledge is active on the game. This could be a good addition because there's vanilla planets like Maxios on the Magec System that have history and can be settled down for roleplay reasons and terraform it to make it habitable again.

Second, there's a plan of adding an terraforming project that eliminates or mitigates the deciviliced population hazard? Like a quick one that fast, and cheap way that eliminates the dissidents but at the cost of not receiving bonuses in population and maybe causing riots or a rebelion on the planet. Maybe a peaceful option increase the grow rate of the colony but is way expensive than the other one.

In the description of the chamaleon, it says it eliminates dissident populations and when I use it on a colony that has this hazard threat, it doesn't do it at all. Maybe this could be added.

I'm also pointing out that with the vaults of knowledge mod, then you have solar reflectors or the mining drones on a Station, and you use the upgraded version farm and mining industries from VOK, the +2 Bonus of farming and the bonuses from the mining drones won't give also any bonuses if the industries are upgraded.

Lastly, on my last playthrough, the chamaleon didn't work at all, causing me to use story points if I wanted to move the IA of one planet to another.

As always you mod is the best in terms of terraforming and the potential is huge.

Thanks for your hard work.

I'm glad you're enjoying TASC!

There is a "hidden" building that can be unlocked via vanilla quests that will suppress the hazard from meteor impacts.

CHAMELEON can eliminate the decivilized subpopulation condition. Can you please post a screenshot of the tooltip of CHAMELEON and the colony management screen for a situation where it's not doing this?

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the VOK mod issue. TASC Stellar Reflector Arrays cannot be built on station markets so there should be no circumstance where you could have Mining Drones and Stellar Reflector Array on the same colony.
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raco12

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2948 on: August 25, 2023, 11:02:37 AM »

Just wanted to ask a few questions and also say the mod is amazing as always!

There's a condition named meteor impacts that gives 50% hazard rating. TASC is planing to add some terraforming project to fight this hazard or eliminate it? It can be in the form of some planet defense that destroys the asteroids before they land on a planet.

It could be locked as others research projects if vaults of knowledge is active on the game. This could be a good addition because there's vanilla planets like Maxios on the Magec System that have history and can be settled down for roleplay reasons and terraform it to make it habitable again.

Second, there's a plan of adding an terraforming project that eliminates or mitigates the deciviliced population hazard? Like a quick one that fast, and cheap way that eliminates the dissidents but at the cost of not receiving bonuses in population and maybe causing riots or a rebelion on the planet. Maybe a peaceful option increase the grow rate of the colony but is way expensive than the other one.

In the description of the chamaleon, it says it eliminates dissident populations and when I use it on a colony that has this hazard threat, it doesn't do it at all. Maybe this could be added.

I'm also pointing out that with the vaults of knowledge mod, then you have solar reflectors or the mining drones on a Station, and you use the upgraded version farm and mining industries from VOK, the +2 Bonus of farming and the bonuses from the mining drones won't give also any bonuses if the industries are upgraded.

Lastly, on my last playthrough, the chamaleon didn't work at all, causing me to use story points if I wanted to move the IA of one planet to another.

As always you mod is the best in terms of terraforming and the potential is huge.

Thanks for your hard work.

I'm glad you're enjoying TASC!

There is a "hidden" building that can be unlocked via vanilla quests that will suppress the hazard from meteor impacts.

CHAMELEON can eliminate the decivilized subpopulation condition. Can you please post a screenshot of the tooltip of CHAMELEON and the colony management screen for a situation where it's not doing this?

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the VOK mod issue. TASC Stellar Reflector Arrays cannot be built on station markets so there should be no circumstance where you could have Mining Drones and Stellar Reflector Array on the same colony.

Sorry, I didnt explain well at last.

VOK has upgrades to mining and farming.

Subzidiced farming and Fracking are the ones that keep the vanilla comodities. If you have a planet with the solar reflectors that gives +2 farming bonus and upgrade the farming to the improved version of the VOK mod, the +2 Bonus wont be applied to the industry unless you downgrade it again to normal farming.

Its the same with mining drones. If you have a station with mining drones and an alpha core, you should get +3 production but if you upgrade the industry to fracking, you wont get the bonus at all, making fracking or the mining drones useless, depends of which options will produce the most.

Il try to DM you on discord for the chamaleon Issue.
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2949 on: August 25, 2023, 12:23:22 PM »

Just wanted to ask a few questions and also say the mod is amazing as always!

There's a condition named meteor impacts that gives 50% hazard rating. TASC is planing to add some terraforming project to fight this hazard or eliminate it? It can be in the form of some planet defense that destroys the asteroids before they land on a planet.

It could be locked as others research projects if vaults of knowledge is active on the game. This could be a good addition because there's vanilla planets like Maxios on the Magec System that have history and can be settled down for roleplay reasons and terraform it to make it habitable again.

Second, there's a plan of adding an terraforming project that eliminates or mitigates the deciviliced population hazard? Like a quick one that fast, and cheap way that eliminates the dissidents but at the cost of not receiving bonuses in population and maybe causing riots or a rebelion on the planet. Maybe a peaceful option increase the grow rate of the colony but is way expensive than the other one.

In the description of the chamaleon, it says it eliminates dissident populations and when I use it on a colony that has this hazard threat, it doesn't do it at all. Maybe this could be added.

I'm also pointing out that with the vaults of knowledge mod, then you have solar reflectors or the mining drones on a Station, and you use the upgraded version farm and mining industries from VOK, the +2 Bonus of farming and the bonuses from the mining drones won't give also any bonuses if the industries are upgraded.

Lastly, on my last playthrough, the chamaleon didn't work at all, causing me to use story points if I wanted to move the IA of one planet to another.

As always you mod is the best in terms of terraforming and the potential is huge.

Thanks for your hard work.

I'm glad you're enjoying TASC!

There is a "hidden" building that can be unlocked via vanilla quests that will suppress the hazard from meteor impacts.

CHAMELEON can eliminate the decivilized subpopulation condition. Can you please post a screenshot of the tooltip of CHAMELEON and the colony management screen for a situation where it's not doing this?

I'm not sure what you're referring to with the VOK mod issue. TASC Stellar Reflector Arrays cannot be built on station markets so there should be no circumstance where you could have Mining Drones and Stellar Reflector Array on the same colony.

Sorry, I didnt explain well at last.

VOK has upgrades to mining and farming.

Subzidiced farming and Fracking are the ones that keep the vanilla comodities. If you have a planet with the solar reflectors that gives +2 farming bonus and upgrade the farming to the improved version of the VOK mod, the +2 Bonus wont be applied to the industry unless you downgrade it again to normal farming.

Its the same with mining drones. If you have a station with mining drones and an alpha core, you should get +3 production but if you upgrade the industry to fracking, you wont get the bonus at all, making fracking or the mining drones useless, depends of which options will produce the most.

Il try to DM you on discord for the chamaleon Issue.

I think VOK will have to handle the +2 to Farming on their end. This is because the +2 comes from the Stellar Reflector Array condition which is part of vanilla.

I can probably handle the Mining Drones production increase in TASC.

Please post the screenshots here on the forum - I'm not active on the discord.
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FreedomFighter

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2950 on: August 30, 2023, 06:06:30 AM »

Is it possible to adjust the outcome of Kletka Simulator? Got a little upset with improved + alpha core Keltka gave me 0 core for 3 months straight (XCom moment).
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2951 on: August 30, 2023, 05:09:39 PM »

Is it possible to adjust the outcome of Kletka Simulator? Got a little upset with improved + alpha core Keltka gave me 0 core for 3 months straight (XCom moment).

No, it would be necessary to edit the source code and recompile to change the drop chances. As far as source code edits go, this one would be very easy, but you'll still need to be able to read code. Sorry!
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Thyx

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2952 on: August 31, 2023, 02:22:39 PM »

Enjoying the mod, I'd like to request an option to add extreme cold/hot to the Stellar Array even if being toggled in settings. Balancing be damned I want to craft perfection.  8)
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boggled

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2953 on: August 31, 2023, 05:45:16 PM »

Enjoying the mod, I'd like to request an option to add extreme cold/hot to the Stellar Array even if being toggled in settings. Balancing be damned I want to craft perfection.  8)

I'm glad you're enjoying TASC!

I do plan to add a settings toggle to allow the Stellar Reflector Array to suppress extreme temperatures in the next patch.
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JenkoRun

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Re: [0.96a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.4.5)
« Reply #2954 on: September 02, 2023, 01:04:46 AM »

Possible bug: Fullerene Spool cannot be installed on ports with extreme techonomic activity despite the Harmonic Dampener neutralizing the effect.

EDIT: Catalytic Core is also effect by this, making it impossible to upgrade VoK Crystallizator.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2023, 03:10:47 AM by JenkoRun »
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