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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v9.0.7)  (Read 1070240 times)

ArteMooNik

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1560 on: December 18, 2021, 04:28:12 AM »

There is any option to add some BAD conditions to planets? Like exrl hot/cold? In mod feature i mean.
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Serenitis

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1561 on: December 18, 2021, 05:36:49 AM »

Also, terraforming a desert planet into an arid planet would be purely cosmetic because the maximum resource levels are the same.

The ore tables are identical, but that's all.
Arid will always have farmland & organics.
Desert will never have organics, and have a 66% chance to have no farmland.
Arid can also have volatiles, while Desert cannot.

Desert -> Arid would also be a logical terraforming progression since Arid literally is a Desert with added water.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1562 on: December 18, 2021, 06:21:49 AM »

Desert will never have organics, and have a 66% chance to have no farmland.
I will add to this and say that this mod doesn't seem to allow you to upgrade resource deposits if there are none, so natural desert worlds without farmland can't be made to produce food without undergoing a full transformation.
I had this happen with Ithaca.
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boggled

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1563 on: December 18, 2021, 06:27:59 AM »

Nexerelin has special menu on Z press. For calling in fleets and autonomous colony features. Maybe you could do something like that for terraforming features?

That would address the "need to dock" problem, but it introduces a new problem where players won't know about the hotkey to access it. The current menu is immediately obvious to the player as soon as they create a colony.

There is any option to add some BAD conditions to planets? Like exrl hot/cold? In mod feature i mean.

No. The "default" temperature of a planet determines the possible terraforming options, so I don't want to permit the player to add temperature conditions since it would nullify that system.

Also, terraforming a desert planet into an arid planet would be purely cosmetic because the maximum resource levels are the same.

The ore tables are identical, but that's all.
Arid will always have farmland & organics.
Desert will never have organics, and have a 66% chance to have no farmland.
Arid can also have volatiles, while Desert cannot.

Desert -> Arid would also be a logical terraforming progression since Arid literally is a Desert with added water.


By maximum resource levels, I meant the possible terraforming projects the player can use to improve the resources. For example, tundra worlds can use terraforming projects to boost their volatiles level to plentiful, while arid/desert worlds max out at trace.

This mod doesn't change the procedurally generated resources for planets.

Desert will never have organics, and have a 66% chance to have no farmland.
I will add to this and say that this mod doesn't seem to allow you to upgrade resource deposits if there are none, so natural desert worlds without farmland can't be made to produce food without undergoing a full transformation.
I had this happen with Ithaca.

That's a bug - you should be able to add resource deposits to a planet if none exist, so long as the planet type supports them. Does this happen only with arid/desert planets, or with all planet types?
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1564 on: December 18, 2021, 06:38:22 AM »

That's a bug - you should be able to add resource deposits to a planet if none exist, so long as the planet type supports them. Does this happen only with arid/desert planets, or with all planet types?
I only noticed it happen on Ithaca and one other desert-adjacent planet. I forgot if it was desert or barren-desert, but I vaguely remember not being able to transform it into arid because the mod already saw it as that.
I don't know if this bug exists on other planet types.
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NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1565 on: December 20, 2021, 04:50:38 AM »

Code
ava.lang.RuntimeException: Error loading [data.campaign.econ.plugins.BoggledEuteckSpecialItemPlugin]
at com.fs.starfarer.loading.scripts.ScriptStore$3.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: data.campaign.econ.plugins.BoggledEuteckSpecialItemPlugin
at org.codehaus.janino.JavaSourceClassLoader.findClass(JavaSourceClassLoader.java:179)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)

I have no idea what any of this means.   :(
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Yunru

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1566 on: December 20, 2021, 04:54:44 AM »

Either you're using a save from an older version, or you need to do a clean re-download and re-install of TASC.
(Including deleting the old version before copying over the new.)

NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1567 on: December 21, 2021, 09:46:00 PM »

Yep, that was the problem - I had just copied the new stuff into the old folder instead of deleting the old folder first.

Moving on... Question: Why do planets require solar mirrors to terraform even if the termperature is already ideal?

Example: I have an ocean world with a mild climate.  The total hazard rating is 75 (50 perfect + 25 for ocean).  The termperature is fine, yet if I want to make it Earth-like I still have to add solar mirrors for some reason.

Which reminds me... if you wanted to add more realism, then changing atmospheric density should affect planet temperature.  Thin atmosphere = colder, thick atmosphere = hotter. 

Example: You have a barren, extremely cold world with no atmosphere.  You terraform it up to a thin atmosphere and the temperature warms to just regular cold.  Make the atmosphere Earth-like and the temperature warms up to normal as well.  Conversely, a scorching hot planet with a Venusian-thick atmosphere should cool off as your thin the air out.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1568 on: December 22, 2021, 05:47:34 AM »

Why do planets require solar mirrors to terraform even if the termperature is already ideal?

Shades/Mirrors can be used for far more than just cooling/warming planets as a whole. They can change environments entirely.
Consider the Sahara Desert. It might seem completely barren now, but there's lots of evidence to suggest that it used to be a lush savanna barely 10,000 years ago. This is because of this thing called "Milankovitch cycles." Axial precession of the Earth caused more solar radiation to reach the Sahara, heating it to a point where the air above it became significantly hotter and less dense than the air above the Atlantic Ocean, causing the dense and humid ocean air to regularly flow over the desert and shower it with rain until it was a desert no longer.
You could theoretically use solar mirrors to achieve the same effect.

Now, seeing as Starsector's water worlds are canonically so deep they make the Mariana Trench look tiny, I'm not certain by what mechanism they could be turned Terran, but I'm pretty sure the mirrors are a better tool than nothing.

Which reminds me... if you wanted to add more realism, then changing atmospheric density should affect planet temperature.  Thin atmosphere = colder, thick atmosphere = hotter.

I don't think the link between atmosphere and temperature is that direct. Sure, you have Venus, which has an atmosphere that makes its surface hotter than Mercury's despite its greater distance from the Sun, but you also have Titan, which has an atmosphere 1.5x denser than Earth's, but isn't all that much warmer than the other moons of Saturn.
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cheesewithaj

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1569 on: December 22, 2021, 03:30:04 PM »

Hi, thanks for the very fun mod - I'm certainly enjoying building my collection of Terran planets.

On that note, I have encountered what I presume is a bug - specifically, a Gas Giant that I was able to terraform into a (very large) Terran planet. Its only prior environmental effects were +1 volatiles, Hot and High Gravity. I couldn't build an Atmosphere Processor, but since it already had a good atmosphere I was still able to choose from the terraforming options in the menu. As a further note, I was able to build a siphon station after the terraforming had finished.

Version: 0.95a-RC15

Mod list:
Spoiler
TSC 8.0.0
Unknown Skies 0.43
Nexerelin 0.10.3c
Industrial Evolution 2.2.g
Adjusted Sector 0.3.3
Console Commands 2021.4.10
Brighton Federation 0.0.2
Detailed Combat Results 5.1.2
Dynamic Tarriffs 1.3.1
HMI Supervillains 0.0.2c
Hazard Mining Incorporated 0.3.4f
Hiigaran Descendants 2.1
Legacy Of Arkgneisis v1.9.10
SpeedUp 0.7.1
Stellar Networks 2.1.1
Lazylib 2.7
MagicLib 0.34
GraphicsLib 1.5.1
[close]

On the topic of menuing, would a subtab on the Intel screen be easier to implement? Populate the left list with all your colonies, and then the info column on the right has current conditions and whether there's an ongoing terraforming project, and if its not a station/gas giant a button to bring up the terraforming menu.
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boggled

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1570 on: December 22, 2021, 04:22:26 PM »

Hi, thanks for the very fun mod - I'm certainly enjoying building my collection of Terran planets.

On that note, I have encountered what I presume is a bug - specifically, a Gas Giant that I was able to terraform into a (very large) Terran planet. Its only prior environmental effects were +1 volatiles, Hot and High Gravity. I couldn't build an Atmosphere Processor, but since it already had a good atmosphere I was still able to choose from the terraforming options in the menu. As a further note, I was able to build a siphon station after the terraforming had finished.

Version: 0.95a-RC15

Mod list:
Spoiler
TSC 8.0.0
Unknown Skies 0.43
Nexerelin 0.10.3c
Industrial Evolution 2.2.g
Adjusted Sector 0.3.3
Console Commands 2021.4.10
Brighton Federation 0.0.2
Detailed Combat Results 5.1.2
Dynamic Tarriffs 1.3.1
HMI Supervillains 0.0.2c
Hazard Mining Incorporated 0.3.4f
Hiigaran Descendants 2.1
Legacy Of Arkgneisis v1.9.10
SpeedUp 0.7.1
Stellar Networks 2.1.1
Lazylib 2.7
MagicLib 0.34
GraphicsLib 1.5.1
[close]

Yes, that's a bug. It should not be possible to terraform gas giants into other planet types! Thanks for letting me know about this.

On the topic of menuing, would a subtab on the Intel screen be easier to implement? Populate the left list with all your colonies, and then the info column on the right has current conditions and whether there's an ongoing terraforming project, and if its not a station/gas giant a button to bring up the terraforming menu.

This is certainly an option. If adding a menu/tab to the colony management screen proves impossible, I may end up doing this instead.
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Sunnyko

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1571 on: December 26, 2021, 05:58:55 PM »

Would it be okay to ask for an option to enable undersea domed cities in the config? Like I can get the intent behind having them disabled by default.... but there such a staple of a lot of fictional works that I would really like to be able to make my own.

Was going to recompile the script to allow it on my copy, but turns out it isn't open souce  so... kinda gotta ask this instead... sorry...
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Oni

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1572 on: December 27, 2021, 12:36:48 AM »

Hey boggled, how hard would something like this be to set up:

Mini-Stations. Essentially an option in the settings (that True/False thing) that when turned to True locks all stations to minimum size and thus one industry, which for Mining/Syphon station is fixed to "mining" (as is their function), while Astropolis have more options for their one industry but can't take mining (that belongs to the other two). Would it also be possible to give them a generic "Supervisor" instead of taking up an entire, and expensive, Administrator since it'll never grow big enough to be a "real" colony on it's own.

Essentially making them, expensive, ways of beefing up your systems industry but without taking focus away from the planets.

Would something like that be possible?  :-\
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boggled

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1573 on: December 27, 2021, 04:00:48 PM »

Hey boggled, how hard would something like this be to set up:

Mini-Stations. Essentially an option in the settings (that True/False thing) that when turned to True locks all stations to minimum size and thus one industry, which for Mining/Syphon station is fixed to "mining" (as is their function), while Astropolis have more options for their one industry but can't take mining (that belongs to the other two). Would it also be possible to give them a generic "Supervisor" instead of taking up an entire, and expensive, Administrator since it'll never grow big enough to be a "real" colony on it's own.

Essentially making them, expensive, ways of beefing up your systems industry but without taking focus away from the planets.

Would something like that be possible?  :-\

Cramped Quarters already exists in the settings file and does something very similar to this. It's not a hard cap on station size, but the growth penalty will make it almost impossible for the station to expand beyond the size you choose.
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boggled

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Re: [0.95a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v8.0.0)
« Reply #1574 on: December 27, 2021, 04:02:56 PM »

Would it be okay to ask for an option to enable undersea domed cities in the config? Like I can get the intent behind having them disabled by default.... but there such a staple of a lot of fictional works that I would really like to be able to make my own.

Was going to recompile the script to allow it on my copy, but turns out it isn't open souce  so... kinda gotta ask this instead... sorry...

See below for the source code link. I think it's reasonable to add this toggle in the settings file - I'll implement it in the next patch.

https://github.com/boggled-starsector/boggled_modpack/blob/master/TASC-Source.zip
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