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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v9.0.7)  (Read 1070515 times)

boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #450 on: May 12, 2020, 09:44:17 AM »

Hello!

I've tried out this mod for some time and I'm loving it so far. However, I think I've ran into a problem with the mod. I got the Crustacean job quest and followed it to completion. My reward was the "Seed lobsters" ability, but it doesn't show up on my ability bar. I fiddled around a bit and found out that this is due to me disabling the Terraforming parts of the mod in the settings file. If I enable Terraforming again, the ability does show up as it should.

The reason I disable Terraforming is only because it gives me a feeling of "Space Dark Ages" that I've always had with Starsector. Like, terraforming was once possible, but now the technology is lost/forgotten/too advanced.

Thanks for a great mod!


Seeding lobsters is considered part of the terraforming aspect of the mod. If you don't want to use the other terraforming features, you can just refrain from building the terraforming structures and remove the Terraforming Control Panel ability from your ability bar. In any case, I'm glad you're enjoying the mod!
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Manice

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #451 on: May 12, 2020, 04:13:38 PM »

Hey, first time poster. I just had a quick question:

Boggled, I noticed you responded to a previous post about lobsters having no demand and therefore no colony income saying it was a flex on the Sindrians and TriTach. Do you also take this position with the Domain artifacts industry?  The AI factions that have terraforming e.g. TriTach and Hegemony could reasonably have your mod's structures, although that could be a *** to implement including accounting for other mods. I don't know if it is and I don't want to make demands of your excellent work, so rather I'm just asking if it's crossed your mind.

The lobster quest was really cool by the way, loved the writing, although I took the money by accident first time around  :D woops
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #452 on: May 12, 2020, 04:40:51 PM »

Hey, first time poster. I just had a quick question:

Boggled, I noticed you responded to a previous post about lobsters having no demand and therefore no colony income saying it was a flex on the Sindrians and TriTach. Do you also take this position with the Domain artifacts industry?  The AI factions that have terraforming e.g. TriTach and Hegemony could reasonably have your mod's structures, although that could be a *** to implement including accounting for other mods. I don't know if it is and I don't want to make demands of your excellent work, so rather I'm just asking if it's crossed your mind.

The lobster quest was really cool by the way, loved the writing, although I took the money by accident first time around  :D woops

The lobsters work differently than every other industry that produces a commodity. They don't actually appear under the production tab along with other commodities - they only start being delivered to your resources storage on the market. This is confusing because if my mod is the first time you've encountered lobsters, it will seem like a bug. But if you take over Volturn in vanilla, this is how lobsters work.

My Domain Archaeology industry works the same as regular industries. If another faction has a structure that demands Domain-era artifacts, you will generate export income. AI factions have no way to build structures that demand Domain-era artifacts, but if you gift them a market with a structure that demands them, you will generate export income from your Domain Archaeology industries as with any other vanilla industry. My upcoming update will have quests to build Astral gates for other factions, and Astral gates demand Domain-era artifacts. This will result in export income for the player.

As much as I want to enable other factions to build terraforming structures, etc., I'm not going to do it because I don't want to cause bugs and compatibility issues. Sorry!

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed my lobster quest!
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Manice

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #453 on: May 12, 2020, 07:04:13 PM »

My upcoming update will have quests to build Astral gates for other factions, and Astral gates demand Domain-era artifacts. This will result in export income for the player.

As much as I want to enable other factions to build terraforming structures, etc., I'm not going to do it because I don't want to cause bugs and compatibility issues. Sorry!

Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed my lobster quest!

Neat, I had some suspicion that lobsters were different, that makes sense. That giving gates to other factions sounds like a bit of a waste since they're so damn profitable with the accessibility, but without the hassle of personally setting them up and some kind of reward I can dig it. Plus the monopoly value (!)

Thanks Boggled! Also got to mention these updates have been fast as hell, really can't say I've seen that much anywhere else.
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Mayu

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #454 on: May 12, 2020, 10:36:27 PM »

Hi again! I'm not sure if this is possible. Is there a way to increase the appearance size of the mining and siphoning stations? It looks a bit small to me when seeing it in the orbit.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #455 on: May 12, 2020, 11:23:40 PM »

Hi again! I'm not sure if this is possible. Is there a way to increase the appearance size of the mining and siphoning stations? It looks a bit small to me when seeing it in the orbit.

Currently both siphon and mining station use a vanilla pictures as a sprite. They are small (80*80), so increasing their size will cause really awful appearance. Not an option, just trust me.

BUT you can always make use of any other sprite and adjust object size in custom_entities.json.

If you able to create a decent station picture - share it please.
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Mayu

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #456 on: May 13, 2020, 12:14:07 AM »

Hi again! I'm not sure if this is possible. Is there a way to increase the appearance size of the mining and siphoning stations? It looks a bit small to me when seeing it in the orbit.

Currently both siphon and mining station use a vanilla pictures as a sprite. They are small (80*80), so increasing their size will cause really awful appearance. Not an option, just trust me.

BUT you can always make use of any other sprite and adjust object size in custom_entities.json.

If you able to create a decent station picture - share it please.

In that regard, sadly, I can't make my own station picture or sprite.  :(

Though thanks for the input!
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DX2002

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #457 on: May 13, 2020, 07:35:58 AM »

Well,I've got an idea about making use of the gas giants.Hope this could be part of the mod's features.
I was actually inspired by the "Gigastructure Construction" mod in Stellaris.The mod has a gigastructure that can be built on gas giants,which is called "Yggdrasil Orchid Complex".It seeds specially modified jellyfish-like creatures on a gas giant and harvest food from it,give a gas giant the potential of becoming a farm that can provide an entire space empire's food.Considering the fact that we already have Eisen Division,I believe that it could be reasonable to make gas giants more useful in this way.
By the way,I wonder if it's possible to create a special kind of mining facility on siphon stations and gas giant colonies dedicated to collecting volatiles,harvesting more but only volatiles?
Making use of gas giants might be a great feature.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #458 on: May 13, 2020, 09:06:21 AM »

Well,I've got an idea about making use of the gas giants.Hope this could be part of the mod's features.
I was actually inspired by the "Gigastructure Construction" mod in Stellaris.The mod has a gigastructure that can be built on gas giants,which is called "Yggdrasil Orchid Complex".It seeds specially modified jellyfish-like creatures on a gas giant and harvest food from it,give a gas giant the potential of becoming a farm that can provide an entire space empire's food.Considering the fact that we already have Eisen Division,I believe that it could be reasonable to make gas giants more useful in this way.
You don't have refer to a mod of another game. Gas giant life actually exists in Starsector canon, on Kumari Aru in the Kumari Kandam system.
It doesn't have any special modifiers that make it a source of food, but that might be because of low research funding and Luddic interference.
By the way,I wonder if it's possible to create a special kind of mining facility on siphon stations and gas giant colonies dedicated to collecting volatiles,harvesting more but only volatiles?
Making use of gas giants might be a great feature.
So like the upcoming planet breaking, but only for gas giant volatiles? Personally, I think the biggest flaw of gas/ice giants is that they're really hazardous, so I'd prefer ways to make them safer, like the "Floating Continent" condition from the Unknown Skies mod, but for something relevant to your idea, the Mimir Siphon Platform in the Valhalla system uses something called the "Ouyang Process" to harvest volatiles from Niflheim more efficiently. Maybe that could be implemented?
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #459 on: May 13, 2020, 05:34:22 PM »

Well,I've got an idea about making use of the gas giants.Hope this could be part of the mod's features.
I was actually inspired by the "Gigastructure Construction" mod in Stellaris.The mod has a gigastructure that can be built on gas giants,which is called "Yggdrasil Orchid Complex".It seeds specially modified jellyfish-like creatures on a gas giant and harvest food from it,give a gas giant the potential of becoming a farm that can provide an entire space empire's food.Considering the fact that we already have Eisen Division,I believe that it could be reasonable to make gas giants more useful in this way.
By the way,I wonder if it's possible to create a special kind of mining facility on siphon stations and gas giant colonies dedicated to collecting volatiles,harvesting more but only volatiles?
Making use of gas giants might be a great feature.

The gas giant jellyfish idea is interesting. The main problem is that it couldn't be implemented as a default setting due to the lack of lore precedent and balance issues, and I want to avoid spending large amounts of development time on non-default content because most players will never use it.

Regarding implementing a new version of the mining industry that only extracts volatiles, the problem is I can't disable or block construction of the vanilla mining industry without causing compatibility problems. Players will be confused why they can mine volatiles with two industries at once, whether it's a bug, how it works, etc.

So like the upcoming planet breaking, but only for gas giant volatiles? Personally, I think the biggest flaw of gas/ice giants is that they're really hazardous, so I'd prefer ways to make them safer, like the "Floating Continent" condition from the Unknown Skies mod, but for something relevant to your idea, the Mimir Siphon Platform in the Valhalla system uses something called the "Ouyang Process" to harvest volatiles from Niflheim more efficiently. Maybe that could be implemented?

I'll look into a terraforming upgrade that will improve volatiles resources on a gas giant. I think this could be a default setting and would not have any serious balance issues that I can see.

You don't have refer to a mod of another game. Gas giant life actually exists in Starsector canon, on Kumari Aru in the Kumari Kandam system.
It doesn't have any special modifiers that make it a source of food, but that might be because of low research funding and Luddic interference.

I've been thinking about ways to implement some feature that cares about the presence of xenolife. What planets in vanilla Starsector have native xenolife on them? I know about Kumari Aru, Chalcedon and Typhon (in the Samarra system). Are there any others?
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #460 on: May 13, 2020, 07:19:16 PM »

I've been thinking about ways to implement some feature that cares about the presence of xenolife. What planets in vanilla Starsector have native xenolife on them? I know about Kumari Aru, Chalcedon and Typhon (in the Samarra system). Are there any others?
Jangala in Corvus is perhaps the most obvious case.
Volturn in Askonia has primitive xenolife that was mostly driven to extinction by the genemod life brought by humans.
Madeira in Tyle has what's described as "pseudoalgaes."
Gilead in Canaan. It's not outright stated to have xenolife, but the circumstances make me believe that it does. As evidenced by the sanctity of Kumari Aru and Jangala, the Luddics worship life-bearing planets, and Gilead is the holiest place in the Luddic faith, cherished for its likeness to Old Earth. I don't think they would value it so highly if it was just a temperate wet rock that they covered in Earth life over the cycles. It was probably full of life when they found it.

Also, I can't seem to find where it says that Typhon has life. Are you sure about that one?
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #461 on: May 14, 2020, 05:13:55 AM »

I've been thinking about ways to implement some feature that cares about the presence of xenolife. What planets in vanilla Starsector have native xenolife on them? I know about Kumari Aru, Chalcedon and Typhon (in the Samarra system). Are there any others?
Jangala in Corvus is perhaps the most obvious case.
Volturn in Askonia has primitive xenolife that was mostly driven to extinction by the genemod life brought by humans.
Madeira in Tyle has what's described as "pseudoalgaes."
Gilead in Canaan. It's not outright stated to have xenolife, but the circumstances make me believe that it does. As evidenced by the sanctity of Kumari Aru and Jangala, the Luddics worship life-bearing planets, and Gilead is the holiest place in the Luddic faith, cherished for its likeness to Old Earth. I don't think they would value it so highly if it was just a temperate wet rock that they covered in Earth life over the cycles. It was probably full of life when they found it.

Also, I can't seem to find where it says that Typhon has life. Are you sure about that one?

In the description for Typhon it mentions that a scientist was locked up on Eventide for alleging that xenolife exists on Typhon.

Hmm, I see that there will probably be some disagreement by players as to which planets have native xenolife. Without some confirmation from vanilla about which planets actually have it, I guess I'll have to shelve this for now.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #462 on: May 14, 2020, 05:55:31 AM »

In the description for Typhon it mentions that a scientist was locked up on Eventide for alleging that xenolife exists on Typhon.
Yeah, you're right. I was using the Starsector wiki and Typhon had the generic gas giant description there. Should've checked the game, too.
Hmm, I see that there will probably be some disagreement by players as to which planets have native xenolife. Without some confirmation from vanilla about which planets actually have it, I guess I'll have to shelve this for now.
You can argue that native Volturnian life is as good as extinct, that Madeira's "pseudo-algaes" don't count as life, that the Typhon whistleblower was indeed insane, or that Gilead somehow produced a terran-compatible atmosphere without native plant life and photosynthesis, but there's no room for disagreement about Jangala, Kumari Aru, and Chalcedon.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 05:59:38 AM by Uhlang »
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.0)
« Reply #463 on: May 14, 2020, 03:27:48 PM »

I was going through the settings and noticed this.
Quote
   "boggledGiftGateMonthlyPayment":75000,
There's a zero missing, isn't there?
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.2.0)
« Reply #464 on: May 14, 2020, 04:00:09 PM »

I was going through the settings and noticed this.
Quote
   "boggledGiftGateMonthlyPayment":75000,
There's a zero missing, isn't there?

I don't think so.

75,000 x 39 months = 2,925,000 credits over three cycles

The upfront cost of a gate is approximately 1.5 million credits with default settings I believe.

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