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Author Topic: [0.97a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v9.0.7)  (Read 1071686 times)

Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #405 on: May 06, 2020, 07:29:42 AM »

Quote
This design looks beautiful though.

It isn't, actually. That was a joke, made in a 12 minutes (literally) altogether graphics and skin code. So, that was a really poor repaint job. Enlarge the picture - you will see numerous flaws. Also, it wasn't good color choice.

Spoiler
[close]

I am already regret making such jokes, as it is offtopic.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #406 on: May 06, 2020, 01:32:22 PM »

Got a suggestion for you, not sure if it would be difficult to implement or not. Since the presumption is that the military police HQ is bringing in de-cived humans to the colony's population, could that translate to a brief (6 months?) but significant growth bonus for the Colony? Particularly duration of the subjugation or after its completion? Other than that I have a few more out-there ideas:

-Orbital elevator: Upgrades Skyhook, greatly improves accessibility but costs more domain artifacts.

-Orbital ring: Upgrade to Orbital works, but adds domain era artifact usage (Station keeping purposes or material I guess)

-Planet Cracking for Terraforming (adds or increases tectonic activity but increases ore yield, maybe as temporary structure like the MPHQ?)

-Increase population yield for cloning (x5 market size maybe?). I know it's more about those sweet, sweet organs but it's kinda underwhelming for the cost.

Loving what you're doing so far with the mod by the way. Keep up the good work!

Military Police HQ: The decivilized subpopulation condition increases colony growth. If the Military Police HQ also increased colony growth while removing that condition, I think that might be confusing to the player.

Orbital elevator: There is no precedent for this in vanilla Starsector lore and I'm already concerned about how much accessibility can be increased using structures from this mod. If I were to implement this, I think it would need to provide some bonus other than just more accessibility - but I'm not sure what would make sense and also be feasible to code. Any ideas?

Orbital ring: Definitely not happening due to lack of precedence in lore, inability to place a donut-shaped object in orbit around a planet, and inability to modify vanilla industries to add another upgrade. Sorry!

Planet cracking: I really like this idea. The main problem is that players can use tectonic stabilization to remove the tectonic activity condition after improving their resources, but that's a non-default option so I suppose I can tolerate that loophole.

Cloning: I'll take a look at the population bonus and evaluate whether it should be increased.

Quote
Could I ask that you modify this image so the blue is much lighter?

That won't be hard, but not today. I have to be sober tonight. I'll do some variants, perhaps different colors (Suggestions? Better directly in RGB)
Quote
create a slightly lighter "halo" around the turrets as seen on the Paragon, Falcon and vanilla Conquest.

"Halo" from vanilla conquest is already there. It is possible to custom-adjust light in this areas, but I am not an artist either. I'll see if able to make something decent.

For the general blueish sections of the ship, perhaps something like 130,150,155, and for the halo around the turrets something like 165, 180, 185.
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ideaconnesuer

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #407 on: May 06, 2020, 01:55:54 PM »

Hey i just wanted to report a crash caused by incompatibility (made a account to do so too!):
yuri expedition being installed and running at the same time as this mod causes the game to crash immediately upon creating or loading a save, and i suspect it is because of the yuri homeworld and station that it spawns after some time.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #408 on: May 06, 2020, 02:06:43 PM »

Hey i just wanted to report a crash caused by incompatibility (made a account to do so too!):
yuri expedition being installed and running at the same time as this mod causes the game to crash immediately upon creating or loading a save, and i suspect it is because of the yuri homeworld and station that it spawns after some time.

Can you post the stack trace for the crash? I need that to investigate what caused the crash.

Did you modify the settings file in any way?
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #409 on: May 06, 2020, 03:09:13 PM »

Cloning: I'll take a look at the population bonus and evaluate whether it should be increased.
I really think it should.
As things are, for something that costs half a million, Cloning is rather lackluster. It takes up an industry slot, you can only profit from it if your colony is a free port, it takes many months for it to pay for itself, and the pop growth bonuses are rather insignificant.
For comparison, Cryorevival Facilities don't take an industry slot, cost 300,000 and give +10 pop growth/colony size. Double that with an Alpha Core installed.
Granted, cryosleepers are the holy grail of the colonist, so it's totally fair for Cryorevival to be broken, but even with that considered, I think Cloning should give at least +5 pop growth/colony size, and Alpha Cores should double that like they do in Cryorevival.
Hey i just wanted to report a crash caused by incompatibility (made a account to do so too!):
yuri expedition being installed and running at the same time as this mod causes the game to crash immediately upon creating or loading a save, and i suspect it is because of the yuri homeworld and station that it spawns after some time.
I'm playing with both YX and this mod just fine, so I'll just say that I doubt it's that.
Still worth looking into, I guess.
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ideaconnesuer

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #410 on: May 06, 2020, 04:50:27 PM »

Hey i just wanted to report a crash caused by incompatibility (made a account to do so too!):
yuri expedition being installed and running at the same time as this mod causes the game to crash immediately upon creating or loading a save, and i suspect it is because of the yuri homeworld and station that it spawns after some time.

Can you post the stack trace for the crash? I need that to investigate what caused the crash.

Did you modify the settings file in any way?

uh how do I post/find the stack trace? also no I did not modify the settings for either mod in any way, all I know is that the crash only happens when both mods are turned on
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dead_hand

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #411 on: May 06, 2020, 05:01:17 PM »

Hey i just wanted to report a crash caused by incompatibility (made a account to do so too!):
yuri expedition being installed and running at the same time as this mod causes the game to crash immediately upon creating or loading a save, and i suspect it is because of the yuri homeworld and station that it spawns after some time.

Can you post the stack trace for the crash? I need that to investigate what caused the crash.

Did you modify the settings file in any way?

uh how do I post/find the stack trace? also no I did not modify the settings for either mod in any way, all I know is that the crash only happens when both mods are turned on

Which operating system are you on? If you are using Linux then the error log is actually displayed in the terminal window that you launched starsector from
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ideaconnesuer

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #412 on: May 06, 2020, 05:06:04 PM »

Hey i just wanted to report a crash caused by incompatibility (made a account to do so too!):
yuri expedition being installed and running at the same time as this mod causes the game to crash immediately upon creating or loading a save, and i suspect it is because of the yuri homeworld and station that it spawns after some time.

Can you post the stack trace for the crash? I need that to investigate what caused the crash.

Did you modify the settings file in any way?

uh how do I post/find the stack trace? also no I did not modify the settings for either mod in any way, all I know is that the crash only happens when both mods are turned on

Which operating system are you on? If you are using Linux then the error log is actually displayed in the terminal window that you launched starsector from

windows is my operating system
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Xeno056

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #413 on: May 06, 2020, 07:08:23 PM »

Military Police HQ: The decivilized subpopulation condition increases colony growth. If the Military Police HQ also increased colony growth while removing that condition, I think that might be confusing to the player.

Orbital elevator: There is no precedent for this in vanilla Starsector lore and I'm already concerned about how much accessibility can be increased using structures from this mod. If I were to implement this, I think it would need to provide some bonus other than just more accessibility - but I'm not sure what would make sense and also be feasible to code. Any ideas?

Orbital ring: Definitely not happening due to lack of precedence in lore, inability to place a donut-shaped object in orbit around a planet, and inability to modify vanilla industries to add another upgrade. Sorry!

Planet cracking: I really like this idea. The main problem is that players can use tectonic stabilization to remove the tectonic activity condition after improving their resources, but that's a non-default option so I suppose I can tolerate that loophole.

Cloning: I'll take a look at the population bonus and evaluate whether it should be increased.

Thanks for taking my suggestions under consideration!

I figured the orbital ring would be an issue, I see it in Softer Sci-fi sometimes and love the concept, but as for what it does besides cranking Heavy industry up to 12 I don't know what effect it would have. Maybe once Alex gets the large Domain artifacts up and running and what effects they have I'd know better. Also, thought maybe slapping a gate graphic over a planet could work for imagery :P.

The elevator? Probably a production bonus similar to the Alpha, maybe reduce resource requirements for industries, or even a constructable -10% lower hazard rating for the market. It's basically turning accessing planets to very fast train rides rather than Satan's ballistic atmospheric inferno ride. I'll say that that is stretching it though.

For the MPHQ, the idea I had was that the building brings the decived popultation into the colony population very fast (+10 growth?) rather then the trickle from maintaining the hazard, but the bonus only lasts as long as the MPHQ does while deciv is growth is permanent. Unless they getting... more permanently removed (organ bonus then?). Maybe even have ruins size play a factor into it, like +20 growth for scattered ruins, but vast brings in +80 or so, until the hazard is gone that is, then the growth stops. No idea how code-able that is though.

As for cloning, Uhland said everything I wanted to. Cloning being a less broken Cryorevival Facility makes sense, especially for 5 artifacts.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #414 on: May 07, 2020, 05:15:49 AM »

Military Police HQ: The decivilized subpopulation condition increases colony growth. If the Military Police HQ also increased colony growth while removing that condition, I think that might be confusing to the player.

Orbital elevator: There is no precedent for this in vanilla Starsector lore and I'm already concerned about how much accessibility can be increased using structures from this mod. If I were to implement this, I think it would need to provide some bonus other than just more accessibility - but I'm not sure what would make sense and also be feasible to code. Any ideas?

Orbital ring: Definitely not happening due to lack of precedence in lore, inability to place a donut-shaped object in orbit around a planet, and inability to modify vanilla industries to add another upgrade. Sorry!

Planet cracking: I really like this idea. The main problem is that players can use tectonic stabilization to remove the tectonic activity condition after improving their resources, but that's a non-default option so I suppose I can tolerate that loophole.

Cloning: I'll take a look at the population bonus and evaluate whether it should be increased.

Thanks for taking my suggestions under consideration!

I figured the orbital ring would be an issue, I see it in Softer Sci-fi sometimes and love the concept, but as for what it does besides cranking Heavy industry up to 12 I don't know what effect it would have. Maybe once Alex gets the large Domain artifacts up and running and what effects they have I'd know better. Also, thought maybe slapping a gate graphic over a planet could work for imagery :P.

The elevator? Probably a production bonus similar to the Alpha, maybe reduce resource requirements for industries, or even a constructable -10% lower hazard rating for the market. It's basically turning accessing planets to very fast train rides rather than Satan's ballistic atmospheric inferno ride. I'll say that that is stretching it though.

For the MPHQ, the idea I had was that the building brings the decived popultation into the colony population very fast (+10 growth?) rather then the trickle from maintaining the hazard, but the bonus only lasts as long as the MPHQ does while deciv is growth is permanent. Unless they getting... more permanently removed (organ bonus then?). Maybe even have ruins size play a factor into it, like +20 growth for scattered ruins, but vast brings in +80 or so, until the hazard is gone that is, then the growth stops. No idea how code-able that is though.

As for cloning, Uhland said everything I wanted to. Cloning being a less broken Cryorevival Facility makes sense, especially for 5 artifacts.

I agree that the MPHQ increasing population temporarily would make sense from a realism standpoint, but I want to keep the complexity to a minimum to avoid confusing players. There would also be a balance problem because players could deconstruct and rebuild the MPHQ repeatedly to keep the population growth bonus indefinitely. Decivilized subpopulation should stay a detrimental condition, not an opportunity to get enormous growth rates with minimal downside.

You've convinced me. I will bump up the cloning facility population growth rate from 1x colony size to 5x colony size. That will give it a much larger impact without surpassing the cryorevival bonus.

Hey i just wanted to report a crash caused by incompatibility (made a account to do so too!):
yuri expedition being installed and running at the same time as this mod causes the game to crash immediately upon creating or loading a save, and i suspect it is because of the yuri homeworld and station that it spawns after some time.

Can you post the stack trace for the crash? I need that to investigate what caused the crash.

Did you modify the settings file in any way?

uh how do I post/find the stack trace? also no I did not modify the settings for either mod in any way, all I know is that the crash only happens when both mods are turned on

Which operating system are you on? If you are using Linux then the error log is actually displayed in the terminal window that you launched starsector from

windows is my operating system

Go into the starsector.log file in your Starsector game folder in program files. If you open the starsector.log file right after the crash, at the bottom of the file you should see of a bunch of lines about Java and code lines with an exception type listed. That's what I need to see.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #415 on: May 07, 2020, 07:49:04 AM »

Quote
something like 130,150,155, and for the halo around the turrets something like 165, 180, 185

Sorry, that is not as good, as was in imagination:
Spoiler
[close]

Suggest something more saturated:

Spoiler
[close]

Please do not consider this as a final variant, as layers gives me an option to change everything into anything in like a 15 seconds or so.

That is a joke BTW.
[close]

P.S. do not mind a base color. We can find it easily right after choosing proper decorative paint:
That is a joke either.
[close]

EDIT: It would be more productive to discuss this somewhere in discord. I can spam variants there in a real-time.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 08:06:40 AM by Mondaymonkey »
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DreXav

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #416 on: May 07, 2020, 08:03:59 AM »

Can't build Terraforming platform despite orbital station being present:
https://i.imgur.com/rsQgjQ4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vTxKGOg.jpg

Perhaps the mod does not recognize upgraded stations?
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #417 on: May 07, 2020, 08:27:31 AM »

Can't build Terraforming platform despite orbital station being present:
https://i.imgur.com/rsQgjQ4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/vTxKGOg.jpg

Perhaps the mod does not recognize upgraded stations?

It does recognize upgraded stations.

Can you not build it on any planet whatsoever, or only that planet in particular?

Quote
something like 130,150,155, and for the halo around the turrets something like 165, 180, 185

Sorry, that is not as good, as was in imagination:
Spoiler
[close]

Suggest something more saturated:

Spoiler
[close]

Please do not consider this as a final variant, as layers gives me an option to change everything into anything in like a 15 seconds or so.

That is a joke BTW.
[close]

P.S. do not mind a base color. We can find it easily right after choosing proper decorative paint:
That is a joke either.
[close]

EDIT: It would be more productive to discuss this somewhere in discord. I can spam variants there in a real-time.

Give me some time to test these in-game and see how they look. PM me your discord name. Thanks.
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Xeno056

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #418 on: May 07, 2020, 09:01:45 AM »


I agree that the MPHQ increasing population temporarily would make sense from a realism standpoint, but I want to keep the complexity to a minimum to avoid confusing players. There would also be a balance problem because players could deconstruct and rebuild the MPHQ repeatedly to keep the population growth bonus indefinitely. Decivilized subpopulation should stay a detrimental condition, not an opportunity to get enormous growth rates with minimal downside.

You've convinced me. I will bump up the cloning facility population growth rate from 1x colony size to 5x colony size. That will give it a much larger impact without surpassing the cryorevival bonus.


Glad I could provide input going forward. Can't wait to see what other stuff you have in the pipeline. I hadn't even considered the balance part for the MPHQ. Didn't seem terribly confusing to me, but you're right, it does seem exploitable. I'd balance it with like a -2 stability for having it there or something, but seems like more trouble than it's worth trying to balance.

Btw, this was something I was wondering about when I first started using the mod, but why isn't Terraforming into arid a option? Limited menu space? Or did it just seem pointless given the other options?
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.1.4)
« Reply #419 on: May 07, 2020, 09:07:00 AM »


I agree that the MPHQ increasing population temporarily would make sense from a realism standpoint, but I want to keep the complexity to a minimum to avoid confusing players. There would also be a balance problem because players could deconstruct and rebuild the MPHQ repeatedly to keep the population growth bonus indefinitely. Decivilized subpopulation should stay a detrimental condition, not an opportunity to get enormous growth rates with minimal downside.

You've convinced me. I will bump up the cloning facility population growth rate from 1x colony size to 5x colony size. That will give it a much larger impact without surpassing the cryorevival bonus.


Glad I could provide input going forward. Can't wait to see what other stuff you have in the pipeline. I hadn't even considered the balance part for the MPHQ. Didn't seem terribly confusing to me, but you're right, it does seem exploitable. I'd balance it with like a -2 stability for having it there or something, but seems like more trouble than it's worth trying to balance.

Btw, this was something I was wondering about when I first started using the mod, but why isn't Terraforming into arid a option? Limited menu space? Or did it just seem pointless given the other options?


I already have desert terraforming as an option, so I think there wouldn't be much point adding arid as well. It would take up menu space necessitating scrolling through multiple pages (very ugly and time consuming) and it would take development time to code as well.

Thanks for your suggestions! I think planet cracking will be pretty cool to have.
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