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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.97a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v9.0.7)  (Read 1070511 times)

SneakyDevil

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #270 on: April 12, 2020, 01:25:44 AM »

Heyo, just popping in to thank you for this amazing enhancement to the game.

Okay, that's actually a lie(why I'm here, the mod is still great), I came because I just finished my first terraforming project. Which shockingly yeeted my planet of resources. Which *would* have been nice to know ahead of time...

So, is there any chance we could get a table of changes made with each terraforming project? Because I'm fine terraforming things into something other than a Terran world if I actually know what I would be getting with each option.

Edit: A bug report(?) I have an AI Core trainer up with an Alpha Core on it. So far in the last 20 months it has been operational I made 13 Gamma Cores and 7 Beta Cores. I have yet to proc another Alpha Core or Nothing. Negate that, as I say that an Alpha Core procs...
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 02:12:08 AM by SneakyDevil »
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #271 on: April 12, 2020, 06:22:52 AM »

#Setting this to true will completely disable any terraforming content
   "boggledTerraformingContentEnabled":true,


OK, now I'm confused.  First line says that setting the second line to true disables all content, but the second line is saying that if I want it enabled then I have to set it to true.

Spoiler
[close]

Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure where the "true" language in the commented code above came from. In the settings description in the original post and the settings file in the mod, the text reads "Setting this to false will completely disable any terraforming content". Where did you see that incorrect language?

I don't want to start introducing building requirements for certain terraforming projects. Although it makes sense from a realism standpoint, one of the most heavily criticized elements of my pre-rework terraforming mod was the need for Ismara's Sling/Drone Nexus to terraform desert planets. Most players didn't like that mechanic, and therefore I'm very hesitant to bring it back.
I think what bothered people the most was the general confusion and the hard limitations.
Before this update, you could only terraform water-ice, toxic, tundra, and desert planets that had water-ice neighbors or stations from your other mod. That actually excluded a significant amount of planets, especially in younger constellations/systems.
With the mod having become so streamlined and open(I mean, even barren worlds are fair game now,) I think people would be willing to accept a soft restriction or two. "Soft" is the key word here. If someone wants to make a frozen world bathing in the corona of a blue hypergiant, I say let 'em. Just have them set up some shades first. Surely that's not unreasonable?
I agree with your point that there's not much reason to make anything other than water or terran planets. I'm likely going to need to rebalance some of the resources that the terraformed planets have to justify making jungle and tundra worlds in some scenarios. If you have any ideas on specifically what balance changes I should make, please share!
Right now, all I can think of is guaranteeing plentiful organics on jungle worlds and trace volatiles on tundra worlds. "Trace volatiles" might not seem like much, but combined with the presence of organics(which tundra worlds always have) and both kinds of metals, you can develop a very profitable mining colony. And yes, I checked the survey list again and confirmed that they can have it naturally.
I also noticed that jungle and tundra worlds can spawn with Mild Climate, too, so opening the Mild Climate terraforming option to them is another good way to make them more appealing.

I understand your argument that there are some pretty unrealistic and nonsensical terraforming situations that the player can create using the new system. If I continue to see players requesting this kind of realism, I will implement it, but based on the highly negative reaction to the water requirements I don't want to implement this type of restriction unless there's a large player demand for it.

I will enable mild climate on jungle and tundra worlds, and possibly others. I'll take a look through the sector generation code and see what conditions are permissible where.

Suggestion: do not "set" volatiles when terraform to terran, calculate them instead. Like -1 or -2 to previous value. So if it was "abundant" - some will remain, if it was "spare" - it just disappear.

EDIT:

Can confirm terran worlds sometimes generated with volatiles, but never seen more than -1.
Spoiler
[close]

EDIT2:

Alternative suggestion: increase organics based on a volatiles loss amount, so if players lose -2 in volitive, he get +2 in organics.

The problem is that if planets retain or get bonuses for previous conditions, the player can do a "terraforming chain" to get an end result planet that has all the resources maxed out. I also don't want to create complicated rules for what the resources will be after terraforming because then players won't understand what's happening.

Heyo, just popping in to thank you for this amazing enhancement to the game.

Okay, that's actually a lie(why I'm here, the mod is still great), I came because I just finished my first terraforming project. Which shockingly yeeted my planet of resources. Which *would* have been nice to know ahead of time...

So, is there any chance we could get a table of changes made with each terraforming project? Because I'm fine terraforming things into something other than a Terran world if I actually know what I would be getting with each option.

Edit: A bug report(?) I have an AI Core trainer up with an Alpha Core on it. So far in the last 20 months it has been operational I made 13 Gamma Cores and 7 Beta Cores. I have yet to proc another Alpha Core or Nothing. Negate that, as I say that an Alpha Core procs...

I will add information to the tool tip to inform the player about what the resource changes will be if they terraform a planet. Thanks for your feedback!
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RC550

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #272 on: April 12, 2020, 08:43:06 AM »

Thank you for responding to my last post. I understand that changing the resources on the planet when it changes type makes sense. After all, I've never seen Volatiles on a Water world, just like I've never seen Organics on a non-Habitable world (with the exception of pre-made worlds like Salamanca).

I decided to use the new Water world from my last post as a new source of food since it can do that now, but when I went to build the "Aquaculture" industry, if didn't find it. Instead, "Farming" is listed. While "Farming" and "Aquaculture" are mechanically the same (though building "Farming" is a lot cheaper than building "Aquaculture"), this is still a little strange. Is this a bug? Would it be possible to make it so, in the future, planets terraformed into Water worlds have "Aquaculture" as an industry instead of "Farming"?

Edit: Well, this is interesting. When I ordered that "Farming" be built on the Water world, I paid the 75000 credit price for "Farming" and that's what appeared in the build queue. But when it started to BUILD the industry, I checked it again and found that the industry had changed to "Aquaculture" on it's own. Furthermore, when I tried canceling the construction, it refunded me as if I had paid the full price of "Aquaculture", meaning it refunded me 100000 credits (40% of the 250000 cost to build Aquaculture). This means I made a 25000 credit profit. I think I found an exploitable bug.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 08:52:23 AM by RC550 »
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #273 on: April 12, 2020, 09:26:41 AM »

Thank you for responding to my last post. I understand that changing the resources on the planet when it changes type makes sense. After all, I've never seen Volatiles on a Water world, just like I've never seen Organics on a non-Habitable world (with the exception of pre-made worlds like Salamanca).

I decided to use the new Water world from my last post as a new source of food since it can do that now, but when I went to build the "Aquaculture" industry, if didn't find it. Instead, "Farming" is listed. While "Farming" and "Aquaculture" are mechanically the same (though building "Farming" is a lot cheaper than building "Aquaculture"), this is still a little strange. Is this a bug? Would it be possible to make it so, in the future, planets terraformed into Water worlds have "Aquaculture" as an industry instead of "Farming"?

Edit: Well, this is interesting. When I ordered that "Farming" be built on the Water world, I paid the 75000 credit price for "Farming" and that's what appeared in the build queue. But when it started to BUILD the industry, I checked it again and found that the industry had changed to "Aquaculture" on it's own. Furthermore, when I tried canceling the construction, it refunded me as if I had paid the full price of "Aquaculture", meaning it refunded me 100000 credits (40% of the 250000 cost to build Aquaculture). This means I made a 25000 credit profit. I think I found an exploitable bug.

I'm aware of this bug, but unfortunately I don't believe it can be fixed in the current version of Starsector. Alex said he would implement a change in the API in the next version of Starsector that will allow me to fix this problem. You're just going to have to use the honor system and not abuse this bug! Sorry!
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MRXZX

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #274 on: April 13, 2020, 07:27:44 AM »


I was wondering if you could add options for habitable planets to stop population growth from hazard levels, similar to stations, for example hazzard rating on 75% means that your/bot colony can grow to 9 level population, 100%to 8lv, 125% to 7lv, 150% to 6, 175% to 5, and higher than 200% can only grow to 4lv? (if somebody add simmilar idea sorry)

and one more thing as I update the mod,can I play the same save file or do i need to star new one ?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #275 on: April 13, 2020, 07:48:08 AM »

Vanilla bot colonies does not grow. At all. Some mods changes that, tho'.

Vanilla player colonies does not have limitation on size, but have growth penalty based on hazard rating, making insanely long to achieve large sizes whiteout growth buffs, like cryosleeper structures or "open market" status and huge growth investments. So, it is almost entirely implemented in vanilla. So it goes.

I can understand your suggestion, but doubt it is fit to this mod. It is rather idea for "better colonies" or Nex, or else.
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rashiakas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #276 on: April 13, 2020, 10:02:28 AM »

Hi Boggled,

got this crash after I delivered the Astral to the hegenmony guy and saved in the penelope system:

« Last Edit: April 13, 2020, 10:04:51 AM by rashiakas »
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MRXZX

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #277 on: April 13, 2020, 12:04:43 PM »

Vanilla bot colonies does not grow. At all. Some mods changes that, tho'.

Vanilla player colonies does not have limitation on size, but have growth penalty based on hazard rating, making insanely long to achieve large sizes whiteout growth buffs, like cryosleeper structures or "open market" status and huge growth investments. So, it is almost entirely implemented in vanilla. So it goes.

I can understand your suggestion, but doubt it is fit to this mod. It is rather idea for "better colonies" or Nex, or else.

i know that they are not growing on vanila game but with nexerelin they are, but with your cramped station modifier, stations dont grow and this add some immersion :P but ok i will make suggestion there who know maybe they will add something
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DX2002

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #278 on: April 13, 2020, 05:15:51 PM »


I was wondering if you could add options for habitable planets to stop population growth from hazard levels, similar to stations, for example hazzard rating on 75% means that your/bot colony can grow to 9 level population, 100%to 8lv, 125% to 7lv, 150% to 6, 175% to 5, and higher than 200% can only grow to 4lv? (if somebody add simmilar idea sorry)

and one more thing as I update the mod,can I play the same save file or do i need to star new one ?
Maybe you could just use your old saving,I just uninstlled the old version and replaced it with the new one,it worked,at least it didn't crash.bBut by the way,I don't have a colony,so I'm not sure whether it's completey OK.Just make sure that you've prepared a backup before you try.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #279 on: April 13, 2020, 07:43:45 PM »


I was wondering if you could add options for habitable planets to stop population growth from hazard levels, similar to stations, for example hazzard rating on 75% means that your/bot colony can grow to 9 level population, 100%to 8lv, 125% to 7lv, 150% to 6, 175% to 5, and higher than 200% can only grow to 4lv? (if somebody add simmilar idea sorry)

and one more thing as I update the mod,can I play the same save file or do i need to star new one ?
Maybe you could just use your old saving,I just uninstlled the old version and replaced it with the new one,it worked,at least it didn't crash.bBut by the way,I don't have a colony,so I'm not sure whether it's completey OK.Just make sure that you've prepared a backup before you try.

This mod is backwards compatible with itself. It is not backwards compatible with Boggled's Terraforming Mod, Player Gate Construction or Player AI Core Production (they've all been integrated into this mod and the old versions are now deprecated).

Hi Boggled,

got this crash after I delivered the Astral to the hegenmony guy and saved in the penelope system:



Hmm, I'm not sure what caused that, but my mod seems to be the culprit. Did you happen to update to 5.0.4 while the quest was in progress? In any event, I'll look into it further and issue a patch. Thanks for letting me know about this!



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rashiakas

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #280 on: April 13, 2020, 08:36:03 PM »

Nah, didnt update. Thanks for looking into it.
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grinningsphinx

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.5)
« Reply #281 on: April 14, 2020, 09:26:09 PM »

no ones going to go through the hassle of exploiting anything for 25k credits when they can just use console commands far more simply.
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grinningsphinx

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.4)
« Reply #282 on: April 14, 2020, 09:27:33 PM »


I was wondering if you could add options for habitable planets to stop population growth from hazard levels, similar to stations, for example hazzard rating on 75% means that your/bot colony can grow to 9 level population, 100%to 8lv, 125% to 7lv, 150% to 6, 175% to 5, and higher than 200% can only grow to 4lv? (if somebody add simmilar idea sorry)

and one more thing as I update the mod,can I play the same save file or do i need to star new one ?

This would be *Crazy* incompatible with the large majority of faction mods already in existence.
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Super Neko

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.5)
« Reply #283 on: April 15, 2020, 12:56:28 PM »

Hi Boggled,

Would it be alright to increase the mining station limit from 1 per system? If I have a system with multiple asteroid belts, or multiple asteroid clusters, it seem logical have multiple mining stations exploiting each resource rich areas.

Thanks
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 12:58:08 PM by Super Neko »
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Chairman Suryasari

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.5)
« Reply #284 on: April 15, 2020, 01:41:32 PM »

Nice, but will the terraforming platform will stay on colony menu? i mean, the DIY Terraforming, their structure will be gone after terraforming complete so it's doesn't show on colony menu, starsector still have problem with structure limitation because it's can show them properly via menu.
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