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Author Topic: [0.97a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v9.0.7)  (Read 1070409 times)

DX2002

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.2)
« Reply #255 on: April 10, 2020, 06:12:44 AM »

Well,sir,may I ask for your permission to translate this mod into Chinese and update it to Chinese starsector forums?Here are their addresses:   https://www.fossic.org/,https://tieba.baidu.com/f?kw=%E8%BF%9C%E8%A1%8C%E6%98%9F%E5%8F%B7&ie=utf-8 .Your mod is really a great improvement to starsector gameplay,but I only find the past versions of your mod,which are still seperated into 3 mods,so I really want to translate the new version and put it on the forums.Thank you!

You have my permission. Thank you!

And by the way,I do have a few parts in your mod that I'm not sure of the texts'  meaning.The most tricky one is the word "Eisen Division",I refered to the dictionary but I didn't find it in English(oops),but I did find that it's "iron" in German.However,from the descriptions below,it sounds like sth like,well,a group of microorganisms?I'm really confused :P,so would you pls just explain its meaning.Thanks!

"Eisen" is the name of a person. It is almost an anagram for "nisei", which means "second generation" in Japanese. You could translate "Eisen Division" as "Second Generation Company" or "New Generation Laboratory". I hope this helps. Thanks.
Wow,thanks,looking forward to your mod's next update ;D
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SamTheHacker93

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.2)
« Reply #256 on: April 10, 2020, 11:16:07 AM »

Hey boggled, for some reason Penelope's secret quest is bugged not sure why
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p020901

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.2)
« Reply #257 on: April 10, 2020, 11:54:18 AM »

Crash report: Crashed exiting to campaign space view after transferring market to another faction (YRXP- Caparice Trading Co.)

13857683 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 1, Size: 1
java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 1, Size: 1
   at java.util.ArrayList.rangeCheck(Unknown Source)
   at java.util.ArrayList.get(Unknown Source)
   at data.campaign.econ.boggledTools.getTargetGateToken(boggledTools.java:574)
   at data.campaign.econ.abilities.Boggled_Select_Next_Gate.createTooltip(Boggled_Select_Next_Gate.java:222)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.E$3.createImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.create(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.beforeShown(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.showTooltip(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.public.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.E.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.V.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.O0oO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)



Also another bug I noticed: when I built 2 astral gates, 1 did not show up in the choosing gate to teleport to option.

I built an Astral gate at Beta Dirac, and another at Lethia, but only the one from Lethia registers. Also the one built at Lethia took an in-ordinary amount of time to be built (around 20 seconds). Then I built another Gate at Sola, which appeared completely normal but can only linked to Lethia Gate and not Beta Dirac Gate. Then it crashed after I transferred it to YRXP faction.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.2)
« Reply #258 on: April 10, 2020, 12:47:04 PM »

I just terraformed a toxic planet into a desert planet and it didn't get the "Habitable" condition, which I'm pretty sure all naturally-occurring desert planets have.

Did you make it like that so that people don't take advantage of the Terraforming Point reduction and basically take shortcuts while terraforming(which is exactly what I was intending to do, not gonna lie) or am I wrong about desert planets? I know that barren-desert planets aren't habitable, but I could've sworn that all desert planets are.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.2)
« Reply #259 on: April 10, 2020, 08:07:22 PM »

I just terraformed a toxic planet into a desert planet and it didn't get the "Habitable" condition, which I'm pretty sure all naturally-occurring desert planets have.

Did you make it like that so that people don't take advantage of the Terraforming Point reduction and basically take shortcuts while terraforming(which is exactly what I was intending to do, not gonna lie) or am I wrong about desert planets? I know that barren-desert planets aren't habitable, but I could've sworn that all desert planets are.

It is intended that the desert transformation does not have the habitable condition. If it's true that all desert planets have habitable, I will have to change this.

Hey boggled, for some reason Penelope's secret quest is bugged not sure why

What version of the mod are you using? What is the nature of the bug?

Crash report: Crashed exiting to campaign space view after transferring market to another faction (YRXP- Caparice Trading Co.)

13857683 [Thread-4] ERROR com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain  - java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 1, Size: 1
java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: Index: 1, Size: 1
   at java.util.ArrayList.rangeCheck(Unknown Source)
   at java.util.ArrayList.get(Unknown Source)
   at data.campaign.econ.boggledTools.getTargetGateToken(boggledTools.java:574)
   at data.campaign.econ.abilities.Boggled_Select_Next_Gate.createTooltip(Boggled_Select_Next_Gate.java:222)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.E$3.createImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.create(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.impl.StandardTooltipV2Expandable.beforeShown(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.showTooltip(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.public.super(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.Objectsuper.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.E.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.V.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.N.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.newui.O0oO.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.dispatchEventsToChildren(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.v.processInputImpl(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.ui.o00OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.campaign.CampaignState.processInput(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.BaseGameState.traverse(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.state.AppDriver.begin(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.combat.CombatMain.main(Unknown Source)
   at com.fs.starfarer.StarfarerLauncher$1.run(Unknown Source)
   at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)



Also another bug I noticed: when I built 2 astral gates, 1 did not show up in the choosing gate to teleport to option.

I built an Astral gate at Beta Dirac, and another at Lethia, but only the one from Lethia registers. Also the one built at Lethia took an in-ordinary amount of time to be built (around 20 seconds). Then I built another Gate at Sola, which appeared completely normal but can only linked to Lethia Gate and not Beta Dirac Gate. Then it crashed after I transferred it to YRXP faction.

I think I understand why the crash happened and I'm going to issue a patch to fix it. Thanks for letting me know about this.

As for the long build time for the Lethia gate, this is expected under certain circumstances as the logic is trying to find a good place to build the gate. 20 seconds is much longer than I ever saw in testing. What are your computer specs?
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.2)
« Reply #260 on: April 10, 2020, 09:51:31 PM »

It is intended that the desert transformation does not have the habitable condition. If it's true that all desert planets have habitable, I will have to change this.
I just ran the SurveyAll command on my game. I play with a slightly customized Adjusted Sector mod, so I got a good sample size of ~50 desert planets.
The only ones that didn't have Habitable came from mods.
This is what you saw if you looked exclusively at RNG planets
[close]
Habitable on every single one of them.

Mind you, if you do make it so that every planet terraformed into desert gets Habitable, you will create a shortcut for terraforming the more difficult planets.
For example, terraforming the average barren world with only the No Atmosphere condition straight into terran would cost 20,000 points(8,000 + 12,000,) but if you stop at desert first and give it the Habitable condition, it would be just 12,000(20,000 x 0.4 = 8,000 for desert, then 8,000 - 4,000 = 4,000 for terran)

Personally, I like this both because it's closer to how actual terraforming would work and because it seems like a reward for the player's forethought and patience. Just thought I'd mention it in case you wouldn't be okay with it.

EDIT: Also worth noting that the desert planets all seem to have Extreme Weather, too, which my terraformed planet didn't get, either.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 10:48:24 PM by Uhlang »
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Serenitis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.2)
« Reply #261 on: April 11, 2020, 02:56:37 AM »

It is intended that the desert transformation does not have the habitable condition. If it's true that all desert planets have habitable, I will have to change this.

"Desert" planets are cat_hab2 which are always habitable.
It is possible that you might have been thinking about "Barren Desert" which are cat_hab1, and not always habitable.

You could either change the Desert option to give habitable status, or swap it to change to Barren Desert if that was the intended progression.
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RC550

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #262 on: April 11, 2020, 12:58:03 PM »

I love the mod and I prefer the new Terraforming system to the old one. That being said, I just finished terraforming a Cryovolcanic world with Abundant Volatiles into a Water world. In the process, the planet gained some Organics, which is nice. Unfortunately, it also LOST all of it's Volatiles, which means I've just lost a large chunk of my income. Is getting rid of planetary resources intentional, or a bug? If it is intentional, I think some kind of warning when selecting the terraforming project would be necessary to prevent something like this happening.
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knogleknuser

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #263 on: April 11, 2020, 01:09:30 PM »

If you build a stellar array and later sell it, you are unable to rebuild the stellar array at said colony as it is still 'present' (physically in the overworld, but not in the colony screen) despite it providing no benefits, thus rendering you unable to rebuild that terraforming project on that planet forever.
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #264 on: April 11, 2020, 02:11:42 PM »

So, I'm loving the new terraforming system, but I have two little problems with it.

1. The Stellar Reflectors seem somewhat useless now.
With how cheap they are to build and maintain, Terraforming Platforms are like the pauper's choice for terraforming, while Eisen Divisions and Atmosphere Processors are obviously late-game structures meant for the true terraforming magnates who have a bunch of cores and nanoforges lying around. Ismara's Slings are situational, but they can also be really valuable in systems with lots of terraforming going on. Stellar Reflectors, on the other hand, seem too expensive to maintain to appeal to the new colonizer and too ineffective to be useful to the veteran. They do remove Poor Light, bring in more points than Terraforming Platforms, and don't require stations to build, but you were going to build stations anyway, and the slight edge the Reflectors have in point production doesn't really justify their construction on any planet that doesn't have Poor Light.

2. There's not enough incentive to pick worlds that aren't water or terran.
The only thing the less-optimal planets have is that they require less terraforming points, which, if you ask me, doesn't really justify their production over that of temperate paradises which can be further improved with Mild Climate. They take longer, sure, but it's not like the players won't have anything else to do while they wait, and even if they did decide to go for a jungle or tundra world, they would seem like just another step towards terran or water — never the final stop.

I'm not sure if this is feasible, but I think a good solution to both of these would be locking certain terraforming projects behind Stellar Reflectors depending on where the planets are in the system. E.G. A planet that's basically kissing its star should only be terraformable into desert or jungle until it has Stellar Shades installed, while a freezing planet on the outer end of the system should only be allowed to become tundra or frozen until it has Stellar Mirrors. The reflectors would unlock the other types and ideally, they would have to stay up for the planet to be able to continue being the type it originally couldn't.
This would make Stellar Reflectors a lot more useful, while at the same time, the upkeep and building slot requirement would incentivize creating tundra or jungle worlds over terran or water. It would also make the "Goldilocks Zone" system that Starsector seems to have feel more consequential, because with this set-up, the planets located there wouldn't need any reflectors to become anything, making them more precious, just as they would be in real life and Starsector's lore.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 02:21:41 PM by Uhlang »
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #265 on: April 11, 2020, 02:23:17 PM »

Quote
locking certain terraforming projects behind Stellar Reflectors

Alternative suggestion: you can not terraform planets to terran and water if planet has "hot", "cold", toxic atmosphere, etc..., until that conditions are not removed by structures. Seems logical to remove obstacles before doing a job.
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I dislike human beings... or I just do not know how to cook them well.

boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #266 on: April 11, 2020, 03:56:42 PM »

I love the mod and I prefer the new Terraforming system to the old one. That being said, I just finished terraforming a Cryovolcanic world with Abundant Volatiles into a Water world. In the process, the planet gained some Organics, which is nice. Unfortunately, it also LOST all of it's Volatiles, which means I've just lost a large chunk of my income. Is getting rid of planetary resources intentional, or a bug? If it is intentional, I think some kind of warning when selecting the terraforming project would be necessary to prevent something like this happening.

That is intentional. I will add a warning to the tool tips that resources will be modified by terraforming and that the changes aren't always completely beneficial.

If you build a stellar array and later sell it, you are unable to rebuild the stellar array at said colony as it is still 'present' (physically in the overworld, but not in the colony screen) despite it providing no benefits, thus rendering you unable to rebuild that terraforming project on that planet forever.

That's unintended. I'll fix this in the next patch. Thank you for letting me know!

So, I'm loving the new terraforming system, but I have two little problems with it.

1. The Stellar Reflectors seem somewhat useless now.
With how cheap they are to build and maintain, Terraforming Platforms are like the pauper's choice for terraforming, while Eisen Divisions and Atmosphere Processors are obviously late-game structures meant for the true terraforming magnates who have a bunch of cores and nanoforges lying around. Ismara's Slings are situational, but they can also be really valuable in systems with lots of terraforming going on. Stellar Reflectors, on the other hand, seem too expensive to maintain to appeal to the new colonizer and too ineffective to be useful to the veteran. They do remove Poor Light, bring in more points than Terraforming Platforms, and don't require stations to build, but you were going to build stations anyway, and the slight edge the Reflectors have in point production doesn't really justify their construction on any planet that doesn't have Poor Light.

2. There's not enough incentive to pick worlds that aren't water or terran.
The only thing the less-optimal planets have is that they require less terraforming points, which, if you ask me, doesn't really justify their production over that of temperate paradises which can be further improved with Mild Climate. They take longer, sure, but it's not like the players won't have anything else to do while they wait, and even if they did decide to go for a jungle or tundra world, they would seem like just another step towards terran or water — never the final stop.

I'm not sure if this is feasible, but I think a good solution to both of these would be locking certain terraforming projects behind Stellar Reflectors depending on where the planets are in the system. E.G. A planet that's basically kissing its star should only be terraformable into desert or jungle until it has Stellar Shades installed, while a freezing planet on the outer end of the system should only be allowed to become tundra or frozen until it has Stellar Mirrors. The reflectors would unlock the other types and ideally, they would have to stay up for the planet to be able to continue being the type it originally couldn't.
This would make Stellar Reflectors a lot more useful, while at the same time, the upkeep and building slot requirement would incentivize creating tundra or jungle worlds over terran or water. It would also make the "Goldilocks Zone" system that Starsector seems to have feel more consequential, because with this set-up, the planets located there wouldn't need any reflectors to become anything, making them more precious, just as they would be in real life and Starsector's lore.

As you mentioned, the niche for stellar reflectors is that they remove poor light. They also don't demand any commodities, which is a positive thing relative to the terraforming platform if you don't have in-faction fuel and hulls production. Finally, if you already have the terraforming platform but don't have the resources to utilize the atmosphere processor and/or Eisen Division, the reflectors are a good way to get more points without a huge up-front investment.

I agree with your point that there's not much reason to make anything other than water or terran planets. I'm likely going to need to rebalance some of the resources that the terraformed planets have to justify making jungle and tundra worlds in some scenarios. If you have any ideas on specifically what balance changes I should make, please share!

I don't want to start introducing building requirements for certain terraforming projects. Although it makes sense from a realism standpoint, one of the most heavily criticized elements of my pre-rework terraforming mod was the need for Ismara's Sling/Drone Nexus to terraform desert planets. Most players didn't like that mechanic, and therefore I'm very hesitant to bring it back.

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NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #267 on: April 11, 2020, 04:14:21 PM »

#Setting this to true will completely disable any terraforming content
   "boggledTerraformingContentEnabled":true,


OK, now I'm confused.  First line says that setting the second line to true disables all content, but the second line is saying that if I want it enabled then I have to set it to true.

Spoiler
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Uhlang

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #268 on: April 11, 2020, 05:44:40 PM »

I don't want to start introducing building requirements for certain terraforming projects. Although it makes sense from a realism standpoint, one of the most heavily criticized elements of my pre-rework terraforming mod was the need for Ismara's Sling/Drone Nexus to terraform desert planets. Most players didn't like that mechanic, and therefore I'm very hesitant to bring it back.
I think what bothered people the most was the general confusion and the hard limitations.
Before this update, you could only terraform water-ice, toxic, tundra, and desert planets that had water-ice neighbors or stations from your other mod. That actually excluded a significant amount of planets, especially in younger constellations/systems.
With the mod having become so streamlined and open(I mean, even barren worlds are fair game now,) I think people would be willing to accept a soft restriction or two. "Soft" is the key word here. If someone wants to make a frozen world bathing in the corona of a blue hypergiant, I say let 'em. Just have them set up some shades first. Surely that's not unreasonable?
I agree with your point that there's not much reason to make anything other than water or terran planets. I'm likely going to need to rebalance some of the resources that the terraformed planets have to justify making jungle and tundra worlds in some scenarios. If you have any ideas on specifically what balance changes I should make, please share!
Right now, all I can think of is guaranteeing plentiful organics on jungle worlds and trace volatiles on tundra worlds. "Trace volatiles" might not seem like much, but combined with the presence of organics(which tundra worlds always have) and both kinds of metals, you can develop a very profitable mining colony. And yes, I checked the survey list again and confirmed that they can have it naturally.
I also noticed that jungle and tundra worlds can spawn with Mild Climate, too, so opening the Mild Climate terraforming option to them is another good way to make them more appealing.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Terraforming and Station Construction (v5.0.3)
« Reply #269 on: April 11, 2020, 05:53:19 PM »

Suggestion: do not "set" volatiles when terraform to terran, calculate them instead. Like -1 or -2 to previous value. So if it was "abundant" - some will remain, if it was "spare" - it just disappear.

EDIT:

Can confirm terran worlds sometimes generated with volatiles, but never seen more than -1.
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EDIT2:

Alternative suggestion: increase organics based on a volatiles loss amount, so if players lose -2 in volitive, he get +2 in organics.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 06:17:54 PM by Mondaymonkey »
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