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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod  (Read 126269 times)

boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #225 on: February 17, 2020, 11:54:26 AM »

I'd like to propose an (probably not very good) but straightforward solution to the MUD not having a variety as it currently stands, at least while the whole "different textures" thing comes into a reality:

Spoiler
The idea is to have several versions of the MUD, yes, i know this has been said before, and yes, i know the issues this can bring up, but i think it can work better if it's done in the following way:

Make a MUD for each "earth-like" type of planet which are named accordingly, so for example, our current MUD would be renamed as "Miller Urey Device (Terran)" to imply on the title that it makes a terraforms into a terran planet without the need of a giant wall of text. Similarly we could have the followings:

-Miller Urey Device (Terran)
-Miller Urey Device (Eccentric)
-Miller Urey Device (Jungle)
-Miller Urey Device (Tundra)
With Unknown Skies:
-Miller Urey Device (Archipelago)
-Miller Urey Device (Continental)

Notes:
-Drop rate and spawning mechanics of these items would be the same, but they would become a "pool" rather than a singular item in which you can get a random MUD type from survey/motherships.
-MUDs of different types can be used to any other planet types even if they are "earth-like" already, so if you want to turn your terran planet into a continental just for the looks, you could do that. (process would still take the same amount of time as it usually is.)
-From the titles alone you can infer quickly what you're gonna get from your MUD, so the issue of a wall of text in the description or people not getting what it does shouldn't be a problem.
-Each MUD would hold a significantly greater value in a playthrough since there are several types and would make getting the type of planet you want a greater quest.

The issue this tries to address, to an extent, the lack of variety on perfectly terraformed planets, while the MUD isn't the only terraforming tool and while also doing the texture replacement would be a better deal in the future, this could be used in the meantime if said method seems like a long shot.

Also i don't know the process of modding, so in the end this might actually be a way more convoluted or harder to program solution than it might seem, in which case then nevermind.
[close]

This is a reasonable suggestion. One problem though is that the tundra, jungle, desert, etc. MUDs will just be used as a stepping stone to turn otherwise unterraformable worlds into terran worlds anyway by using stellar reflectors after using the MUD.

Depending on what happens in the future with the rework of terraforming, MUDs that turn planets into different types might become a thing.
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e

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #226 on: February 17, 2020, 12:13:46 PM »

This is a reasonable suggestion. One problem though is that the tundra, jungle, desert, etc. MUDs will just be used as a stepping stone to turn otherwise unterraformable worlds into terran worlds anyway by using stellar reflectors after using the MUD.

They are only set as examples for the sake of the suggestion, i did know that tundra gets affected by the mirrors, but i forgot that jungles changed also with shades.

If you think that having a jungle and tundra is redundant cuz they terraform via mirror/shade then they can be ruled out of the suggestion and focus on the more "end product" type of worlds, like eccentric and terran, also archipelago and continental with US.
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #227 on: February 20, 2020, 11:19:29 AM »

As i understand, if installed on existed save it will work, but MUD won't be acquirable at all. And a quest is not ready yet.

Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #228 on: February 20, 2020, 02:58:39 PM »

As i understand, if installed on existed save it will work, but MUD won't be acquirable at all. And a quest is not ready yet.

Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.

MUDs are acquirable if you install this mod in a save in progress. However, they only drop from Domain motherships and survey ships, so if you already destroyed all those ships then it can't be obtained without using the console. If you want to use the console to obtain some MUDs, the ID for the MUD is "euteck". Players typically receive about 4-6 MUDs for destroying all the Domain ships, so you could add that many using the console and I wouldn't consider that cheating.

I'm probably going to be reworking the MUD at a later date, and in the current state it's too powerful to make an unlimited number available for purchase at the black market.
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HopeFall

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #229 on: February 20, 2020, 11:39:50 PM »

Question about some of this. I've been dying to alter the visuals of planets, and I'm wondering if this mod does that?

What I mean is, I see the implication that Frozen planets, for example, become Water worlds. The end goal being Terran.

The information seems a little limited. Are there ways to produce jungle/etc planets by not terra forming all the way? Which planets are viable for this?
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Mondaymonkey

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #230 on: February 21, 2020, 07:45:07 AM »

Quote
if you already destroyed all those ships
YUP! ;D

Quote
If you want to use the console to obtain some MUDs, the ID for the MUD is "euteck". Players typically receive about 4-6 MUDs for destroying all the Domain ships, so you could add that many using the console and I wouldn't consider that cheating.

Well, thank you. However, request is no longer actual, as I was inspired by this and some other mods to begin a new game. Actually, there are several your mods in that modpack, so I doubling the thanks! Make a wide smile and continue.©  ;)
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Serenitis

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #231 on: February 21, 2020, 08:24:35 AM »

This is a reasonable suggestion. One problem though is that the tundra, jungle, desert, etc. MUDs will just be used as a stepping stone to turn otherwise unterraformable worlds into terran worlds anyway by using stellar reflectors after using the MUD.

In that case, why have mirrors/shades do anything other than remove negative conditions on cat_3 and higher planet types? After all, all the 'habitable' planet types have the same overall potential regardless. The types are just cosmetic, it's the conditions that matter.

Then you can have the MUD(s) be the only way of changing it further, or to a specific type.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #232 on: February 21, 2020, 04:44:14 PM »

Question about some of this. I've been dying to alter the visuals of planets, and I'm wondering if this mod does that?

What I mean is, I see the implication that Frozen planets, for example, become Water worlds. The end goal being Terran.

The information seems a little limited. Are there ways to produce jungle/etc planets by not terra forming all the way? Which planets are viable for this?

This mod alters the visuals of the planets when terraforming is complete. However, right now you cannot partially terraform planets to produce suboptimal planet types such as jungle or tundra. In the future, I hope to be able to implement terraforming based on temperature, water and atmospheric density that will allow the creation of whatever type of planet the player desires (even suboptimal types).

This is a reasonable suggestion. One problem though is that the tundra, jungle, desert, etc. MUDs will just be used as a stepping stone to turn otherwise unterraformable worlds into terran worlds anyway by using stellar reflectors after using the MUD.

In that case, why have mirrors/shades do anything other than remove negative conditions on cat_3 and higher planet types? After all, all the 'habitable' planet types have the same overall potential regardless. The types are just cosmetic, it's the conditions that matter.

Then you can have the MUD(s) be the only way of changing it further, or to a specific type.


This is certainly an option. I'm waiting to see if I can steal some textures from the upcoming Stars in Shadow terraforming update, and at that time I will revisit this and other ideas about how to rework the MUD.
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NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #233 on: February 21, 2020, 05:38:29 PM »

Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.

I second this.  The things already have a high enough price tag to justify this, too.  It's not like pirates are big on starting new colonies, so to them finding a MUD would just be a big dollar sign floating over their heads - something to put up for sale so they can buy a new fleet.
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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #234 on: February 21, 2020, 10:44:27 PM »

Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.

I second this.  The things already have a high enough price tag to justify this, too.  It's not like pirates are big on starting new colonies, so to them finding a MUD would just be a big dollar sign floating over their heads - something to put up for sale so they can buy a new fleet.

I am against this for plenty of reasons:

1.- It would defeat the purpose of the MUD being an exclusive limited resource
2.- Pirates are morons, how in the world would they even know what the MUD is in the first place? If anything they would just discard it as scrap.
3.- Pirates have several colonies, even in vanilla starsector without mods, so the argument of "they are not too big on starting new colonies" is completely wrong, even if it was not the case, pirates are one of the two factions keen on constantly making bases outside core worlds. They are raiding bases, yes, but they are still colonies.

This is just to name a few reasons about why doing this would make absolutely zero sense from both a gameplay and a lore standpoint.
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boggled

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #235 on: February 22, 2020, 07:09:56 AM »

Is it possible to add a minor chance to find MUD on a black market rotation? Certain planets, perhaps.

I second this.  The things already have a high enough price tag to justify this, too.  It's not like pirates are big on starting new colonies, so to them finding a MUD would just be a big dollar sign floating over their heads - something to put up for sale so they can buy a new fleet.

I am against this for plenty of reasons:

1.- It would defeat the purpose of the MUD being an exclusive limited resource
2.- Pirates are morons, how in the world would they even know what the MUD is in the first place? If anything they would just discard it as scrap.
3.- Pirates have several colonies, even in vanilla starsector without mods, so the argument of "they are not too big on starting new colonies" is completely wrong, even if it was not the case, pirates are one of the two factions keen on constantly making bases outside core worlds. They are raiding bases, yes, but they are still colonies.

This is just to name a few reasons about why doing this would make absolutely zero sense from both a gameplay and a lore standpoint.

The MUD already makes fairly little sense from a lore standpoint, which I hope to remedy in the future. I think the solution is to add a setting to enable MUDs appearing in the black market, that way people who want this feature can have it and those who don't can leave it disabled.
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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #236 on: February 22, 2020, 04:50:57 PM »

The MUD already makes fairly little sense from a lore standpoint, which I hope to remedy in the future. I think the solution is to add a setting to enable MUDs appearing in the black market, that way people who want this feature can have it and those who don't can leave it disabled.

Yeah, that's probably the better solution. When i said that it would not make sense from a lore standpoint, i was mostly running a comparison with pirates an AI cores and how you are unable to hand those to them, giving the impression that they might not know (or care) what they are... Or how they don't even care about having a nanoforge (in vanilla) or how they probably are unable to comprehend what it is.
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NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #237 on: February 23, 2020, 12:31:31 PM »

1.- It would defeat the purpose of the MUD being an exclusive limited resource

That is a fair point, but keep in mind there is already another Boggled mod that allows players to fabricate their own AI cores.  It could be argued that "game enhancing" and "game breaking" can be just two points of view on the same thing.


2.- Pirates are morons, how in the world would they even know what the MUD is in the first place? If anything they would just discard it as scrap.

Yet they have battleships and unique hull designs that they apparently invented on their own.  I'll grant you that the typical grog-swilling scallywag is probably illiterate, but they couldn't exist as an operation if the people at top didn't have brains.


3.- Pirates have several colonies, even in vanilla starsector without mods, so the argument of "they are not too big on starting new colonies" is completely wrong, even if it was not the case, pirates are one of the two factions keen on constantly making bases outside core worlds. They are raiding bases, yes, but they are still colonies.

Allow me to be pedantic for a moment and reiterate that I said they weren't big on starting new colonies.  I said nothing about already existing ones.  Even in Nexerelin pirates dp not create new colonies.  They do not send out colony expeditions or claim new worlds.  Nor have I ever seen them launch an invasion fleet.  They do raids, that's it.


This is just to name a few reasons about why doing this would make absolutely zero sense from both a gameplay and a lore standpoint.

We can debate the gameplay angle, sure, but let's not bring lore into this too much - the entire mod is pretty lore breaking as it is, as almost all mods are.  And I'm OK with, the same way that I'm OK with Moff Gideon owning the Darksaber even after Disney declared the EU non-canon, because sometimes you just gotta let the fans have what they want.  Sometimes what people call "breaking lore" is what I call "adding to it."
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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #238 on: February 23, 2020, 01:27:20 PM »

1.- It would defeat the purpose of the MUD being an exclusive limited resource

That is a fair point, but keep in mind there is already another Boggled mod that allows players to fabricate their own AI cores.  It could be argued that "game enhancing" and "game breaking" can be just two points of view on the same thing.


2.- Pirates are morons, how in the world would they even know what the MUD is in the first place? If anything they would just discard it as scrap.

Yet they have battleships and unique hull designs that they apparently invented on their own.  I'll grant you that the typical grog-swilling scallywag is probably illiterate, but they couldn't exist as an operation if the people at top didn't have brains.


3.- Pirates have several colonies, even in vanilla starsector without mods, so the argument of "they are not too big on starting new colonies" is completely wrong, even if it was not the case, pirates are one of the two factions keen on constantly making bases outside core worlds. They are raiding bases, yes, but they are still colonies.

Allow me to be pedantic for a moment and reiterate that I said they weren't big on starting new colonies.  I said nothing about already existing ones.  Even in Nexerelin pirates dp not create new colonies.  They do not send out colony expeditions or claim new worlds.  Nor have I ever seen them launch an invasion fleet.  They do raids, that's it.


This is just to name a few reasons about why doing this would make absolutely zero sense from both a gameplay and a lore standpoint.

We can debate the gameplay angle, sure, but let's not bring lore into this too much - the entire mod is pretty lore breaking as it is, as almost all mods are.  And I'm OK with, the same way that I'm OK with Moff Gideon owning the Darksaber even after Disney declared the EU non-canon, because sometimes you just gotta let the fans have what they want.  Sometimes what people call "breaking lore" is what I call "adding to it."

We could keep discussing this, but i think the solution that boggled presented settles a satisfactory result for both sides. :)
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NephilimNexus

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Re: [0.9.1a] Boggled's Terraforming Mod (v3.0.4)
« Reply #239 on: February 26, 2020, 01:58:14 AM »

Agreed.
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