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Author Topic: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints  (Read 2851 times)

Megas

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2021, 12:42:06 PM »

I'd say just let the player know that the lowest tier of a ship type will always be able to be built if there are no better options (I think the default is Low Tech?  ??? ) even if technically blacklisted and set certain aspects of doctrine to zero (no I don't want any phase ships), that way a player's personal faction can have a coherent and consistent ship set without having to be careful about what blueprints they grab.
Assuming player has enough blueprints for every role, it is possible to blacklist most ships.  It is that the current system is hideously arcane and hard/tedious to use even if the player has some idea how it works (but the game will not explain how, it is up to trial-and-error gameplay to find out).  There needs to be an easier way to exclude ships.
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Deshara

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2021, 02:39:59 PM »

EDIT
Honestly it would be better to just allow the player to customize fleet doctrine at their will. It just need consequences. Like having supply hungry ships without freighters in your patrol will affect patrol effectiveness or would force them to wander closer to their base for more frequent resupplies. While having more freighters and tankers would allow them to wander further from colony to patrol around fringe jump points or in hyperspace around their system.

but would that be fun?
« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 04:11:50 PM by Deshara »
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2021, 04:37:23 PM »

it would be way more fun if there was a reason for it like say- you have to actually account for cost in that if you select only expensive ships youll get less, so you better select some of the cheaper ones or else your fleets will be too small
something like that would be a nice way to offset things given more player control would (theoretically) make things easier
and i mean really, for the players who think the game is too easy there are PLENTY of ways to make the game exponentially harder
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Troika

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2021, 12:11:56 AM »

I don't care so much about blacklisting hulls but I dearly want to be able to blacklist weapons and fighter wings.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2021, 04:08:49 AM »

I don't care so much about blacklisting hulls but I dearly want to be able to blacklist weapons and fighter wings.



yea i have to agree
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Sandor057

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2021, 04:55:21 AM »

On one hand I all for blacklisting ships I don't want to see appear in my fleets.

On the other though I don't want it to create extra player side tasks in keeping track of whether you have an adequate amount of fuel ships, cargo freighters etc.

it would be way more fun if there was a reason for it like say- you have to actually account for cost in that if you select only expensive ships youll get less, so you better select some of the cheaper ones or else your fleets will be too small
something like that would be a nice way to offset things given more player control would (theoretically) make things easier
and i mean really, for the players who think the game is too easy there are PLENTY of ways to make the game exponentially harder

Regarding this, while it's extra tasks on the player's side I could see this work. The question is, how? Do you get a base fleet cost (one for small, medium and large each) which increases depending on the number of player Heavy Industries, Orbital Works and Military Bases? Also, if you are swimming in cash, can you allocate some "defense budget" to it so that you are allowed to get bigger and better fleets?

This goes a bit far from the original topic though and doesn't really make up for the issue of e. g. seeing Gremlins in your fleets, while you have the Afflictor set up as preferred.



Alternative idea (that's how I do my playthroughs for a while now): Don't learn blueprints you don't want to use. Less fun, but effectively blocks all ships not learned.
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Oni

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2021, 03:22:20 PM »

... Alternative idea (that's how I do my playthroughs for a while now): Don't learn blueprints you don't want to use. Less fun, but effectively blocks all ships not learned.
While true, it makes my inner completionist cry.  :'(
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Deshara

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2021, 03:21:59 AM »

^ deep agree, my #1 motivator when plkaying is to acquire all blueprints
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Megas

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2021, 07:03:33 AM »

Alternative idea (that's how I do my playthroughs for a while now): Don't learn blueprints you don't want to use. Less fun, but effectively blocks all ships not learned.
Blueprint raiders cannot afford to discard and not learn unwanted unknown blueprints!  All not learning blueprints do is make it highly likely blueprints received from raids are duplicates of each other and not what you really want.  (Thus, turning blueprint raiding into a Diablo-like magic find run that takes at least hours of pointless grinding.)  It stinks getting the same blueprint I do not want to learn raid after raid.  Thus, I bite the bullet and learn every blueprint as soon as they are acquired, even those I do not want, then work with the hideously arcane priority system to block stuff I do not want after trial-and-error.
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Sandor057

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2021, 02:01:13 AM »

Alternative idea (that's how I do my playthroughs for a while now): Don't learn blueprints you don't want to use. Less fun, but effectively blocks all ships not learned.
Blueprint raiders cannot afford to discard and not learn unwanted unknown blueprints!  All not learning blueprints do is make it highly likely blueprints received from raids are duplicates of each other and not what you really want.  (Thus, turning blueprint raiding into a Diablo-like magic find run that takes at least hours of pointless grinding.)  It stinks getting the same blueprint I do not want to learn raid after raid.  Thus, I bite the bullet and learn every blueprint as soon as they are acquired, even those I do not want, then work with the hideously arcane priority system to block stuff I do not want after trial-and-error.

I beg to differ. You may want to use everything you've got, but by the time I'm establishing my first colonies I'm good. Meaning that I may have some blueprints I'm missing, but every role is represented the way I want it to be. Also, while it's only my personal experience, I still like exploration and gathering my blueprints be exploring ruins and research stations.
I can imagine, that it would be more efficient to go around and raid everything I can find, but that's just something I don't very much like to do.
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6chad.noirlee9

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2021, 04:56:00 AM »

.....get a base fleet cost (one for small, medium and large each) which increases depending on the number of player Heavy Industries, Orbital Works and Military Bases? Also, if you are swimming in cash, can you allocate some "defense budget" to it so that you are allowed to get bigger and better

Yes.  This, these are great ideas.

Btw, indo understand that being totally off topic isnt helpful, however, conversations generally tend to fluctuate and evolve and get more complex as they develop, and I really wish the suggestions section would embrace that a bit more.  Inderict relation is still relation, after all.
It may seem like we're getting off topic, however, we are trying to create a solution to the problem posed in and actually solve one imposed by the original suggestion: I dont see that as a negative thing.
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Megas

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2021, 10:51:22 AM »

I beg to differ. You may want to use everything you've got, but by the time I'm establishing my first colonies I'm good.
That does not change that "Don't learn blueprints you don't want to use." to prevent unwanted hulls in your fleet is not feasible for those who raid for blueprints because raids always drop unknown blueprints (until there are none left).  If player does not learn the unwanted blueprints that drop, then those blueprints left unlearned remain in the pool of unknown blueprints to drop later in future raids.

If player learned unwanted blueprints, either by mistake, as part of a tech pack (like pirates with few good ships and a bunch of junk), or to force the remaining unknown blueprints to drop in raids, then the other option is play with the obtuse priority system.  While it works, it can - and should be - made better.
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TLW

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2021, 05:41:36 AM »

A blacklist option is potentially iffy to implement - it's unclear what to do if, say, all freighters are blacklisted (what do trade fleets look like then?), or all frigates are blacklisted, etc.
...the same thing as if you don't have any blueprints unlocked of that type? Or am I missing something here?

I'd envision this acting functionally as though the disabled blueprint wasn't unlocked.
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SafariJohn

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Re: add blacklist option for stuff on doctrine&blueprints
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2021, 06:12:33 AM »

Wouldn't the solution be to literally just prevent the player from blocking the last BP of each type? At least for the frigate-size ship roles.
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