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Author Topic: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?  (Read 2732 times)

Morgan Rue

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Their flux efficiency is weirdly awful, and I'm not sure why. Extremely poor flux efficiency on beams means they are actively bad to fire at enemy shields, since they build up more flux than they deal soft flux.

Why is their flux efficiency so bad? Are they overpowered if they're actually good to fire at ships?
I guess the Phase Lance is sort of comparably bad flux efficiency wise, but the Lance makes up for that in sheer punch. The Heavy Burst Laser doesn't seem to make up for it at all.

Oh, and while I'm on this, Burst PD weapons should probably conserve all of their shots except one, instead of only one of their shots.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 02:56:04 PM by Morgan Rue »
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xenoargh

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2019, 08:50:10 AM »

Agreed on all points.  They're far worse, Flux-wise, than the Fragmentation weapons are (because overpriced Soft Flux is massively worse than overpriced Hard Flux).
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Alex

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2019, 08:59:21 AM »

For the Guardian, it's actually a holdover from a brief period where some specialized PD had much higher flux costs. I've got a note to look at both it and the burst pd lasers; will see where it goes.
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TaLaR

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2019, 09:26:06 AM »

Especially the medium Burst PD. The only thing it's a bit better at is intercepting Sabots due to extra range.
Against Hurricane 1st stage medium Burst PD is as useless as any other PD - only on Optics Paragon does it barely have enough range (but in 99% cases will be distracted by other closer missiles)
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Plantissue

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2019, 09:35:47 AM »

Not really related but...

I've seen PD weapons give priority to the first missile that entered its range and still continue shoot at it even when it is no threat, ignoring other now nearer, more important missiles. Like shooting at a slow Pilum or a missile that is avoided, instead of a Reaper or Atropos missile that is heading straight for the ship.
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Morgan Rue

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2019, 03:26:44 PM »

The big reason I find this so weird is that normal Burst PD Lasers are reasonably efficient
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Terethall

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2019, 12:04:35 PM »

I second Plantissue's annoyance on all of my PD wasting flux and burst charges and opportunity cost vs other missiles to target missiles that not only aren't heading for any of my ships, but have actually already passed them and are moving away from them to the rear. It's like they're being paid by the rocket destroyed, not to minimize damage to my ship.

That said, the AI operating the PD would have to distinguish a salamander that flew past but will loop around from an annihilator that won't, so it's not as trivial  as it kind of feels to the player.
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Megas

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2019, 12:19:06 PM »

Can it tell about missiles not aimed at you but at another ship near you, possibly overloaded?

As for topic, heavy burst is a disappointment - too inefficient, barely better than small burst PD.  Paladin is so inefficient that only Mining Blaster is worse (for energy).
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TaLaR

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2019, 10:29:26 PM »

Currently PD just shoots whatever is closest. Which is horrible target prioritization outside of simpler cases.

Giving player option to configure PD fire priorities would provide optimal performance, but would probably be too powerful and in conflict with other design decisions (flares subvert PD fire control, spammy missiles providing cover to high value ones is at least partially intentional).
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Terethall

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2019, 03:36:21 PM »

Currently PD just shoots whatever is closest. Which is horrible target prioritization outside of simpler cases.

Giving player option to configure PD fire priorities would provide optimal performance, but would probably be too powerful and in conflict with other design decisions (flares subvert PD fire control, spammy missiles providing cover to high value ones is at least partially intentional).

Agreed -- I wouldn't want it to have perfect prioritization, I'm just talking about ignoring anything not on a trajectory to hit the ship, and not turning toward the ship. Which leaves spam and flares useful but stops the PD from just looking dumb.
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Daynen

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Re: Why are the Heavy Burst Laser and Paladin PD System so flux inefficient?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2019, 09:34:49 PM »

I think it might actually be kind of fair for laser PD stuff to be a bit flux inefficient because you're getting a weapon with no travel time, perfect accuracy, no chance to hit a stray target on the way--in other words, things like the Paladin are guaranteed effective without any of the flaws of other PD weapons.  It makes a little sense that you're paying more in flux costs for that reliability.  Whether it should be as much as it is now is debatable, but it makes some sense at least.

I would gladly mount a hullmod that helps PD ignore things that aren't on an impact trajectory though; the game does waste more than a few shots on things that are no threat.
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