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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.  (Read 8206 times)

Null Ganymede

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2019, 08:42:19 PM »

Military bases are for cowards that can't defend their land.

Commerce is for heretics; build up reputation with the Luddic Path and colonize a system they're basing out of instead.
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kenwth81

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2019, 12:34:27 AM »


Star fortresses are not enough to stop late game expeditions. You need multiple military bases in the same system plus max stations if you want to not be chained to your colony defending raids and expeditions for the entirety of late game.

Star fortresses can hold off expedition just fine unless it is multiple expeditions all happening at the same time. The game kinda tell you how strong those fleets are, so you can come back to defend if necessary. If you are too lazy to do that, you can just pay them off... 
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Igncom1

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2019, 02:48:17 AM »

I do feel like you need at least one high command per system for defence purposes, the rest can just buff the main one up with patrol bases.

It does feel a little weird to em that patrol bases require no industry slots, military bases 1, and high commands.... 1 also. Wouldn't it make more sense with 2? It get it taking industry at all, as they are essentially fitting and refitting massive fleets.
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Yunru

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2019, 04:06:16 AM »

I do feel like you need at least one high command per system for defence purposes, the rest can just buff the main one up with patrol bases.

It does feel a little weird to em that patrol bases require no industry slots, military bases 1, and high commands.... 1 also. Wouldn't it make more sense with 2? It get it taking industry at all, as they are essentially fitting and refitting massive fleets.
The first's a malitia, the second's a proper army, and the third's a more equipped army. Put like that it makes sense to me.

Megas

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2019, 07:01:13 AM »

The extra upkeep of High Command over Military Base is significant on higher hazard worlds (150%+)  If I am lucky enough to have overlapping bases, then such worlds might be left on Military Base, instead of all upgraded to High Command.

High Command taking two slots is too much.  Plus, player should be able to trust system defenses without too much cost so he is not compelled to be chained to his colonies by neverending raids from everyone.  If anything, Military Base and High Command should not cost an industry slot unless the game changes that such defenses are no longer necessary to protect colonies while player is away.  Maybe let patrol HQ upgrade with colony size like last release, so that Military Base is not required for every colony for proper system defense.
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bobucles

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2019, 07:31:29 AM »

Do patrol fleets guard the hyperspace around a system, or do they only protect one system? Using an industry slot is expensive, but if you're gaining some extended utility then it's worth the cost.

SCC

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2019, 07:37:12 AM »

Most of patrols is inside the system, patrolling the jump points and colonies, but if there's enough of them, they patrol the hyperspace directly above the system, too. Even protecting a single system is valuable, if that's where all your colonies are.

Agile

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2019, 11:09:16 AM »

High command gives one extra Large fleet and I believe one or two extra medium fleets once your colony reaches around 6 or 7.

While that might not seem like much, if you chain this with 2 other planets, thats enough to defeat 99.9% of expeditions and high level pirate raids.

The other 0.01% is when they send max strength fleets at you; aka "very strong" and "3-4 fleets" type scenarios.
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Igncom1

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2019, 11:26:01 AM »

I'd be up for the military being an industry if we could do more with them. Producing protection to then be 'spent' among even far flung colonies, or enforcers to be dispatched to attack pirate/luddite bases for a large investment cost.

If I could have one high command, many military bases, and the rest patrol bases (for the fleets to operate out of like we do with way stations) then I feel like it could be a really cool way of keeping them an industry but making them less of a pain in the arse.

But to be fair that might also be leading way more of the way of a 4x-lite kinda game rather then the usual battle simulator. But at least defensively a player that produces 'protection' could then spend it where ever it is needed.
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Agile

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2019, 02:44:12 PM »

I'd be up for the military being an industry if we could do more with them. Producing protection to then be 'spent' among even far flung colonies, or enforcers to be dispatched to attack pirate/luddite bases for a large investment cost.

If I could have one high command, many military bases, and the rest patrol bases (for the fleets to operate out of like we do with way stations) then I feel like it could be a really cool way of keeping them an industry but making them less of a pain in the arse.

But to be fair that might also be leading way more of the way of a 4x-lite kinda game rather then the usual battle simulator. But at least defensively a player that produces 'protection' could then spend it where ever it is needed.

It would make sense if the description for "High Command" actually was what HC did; aka having a High Command means a large fleet and maybe two medium fleets as escorts go to nearby systems you control and guard the hyperspace around it.

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Yunru

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2019, 04:11:03 PM »

It'd also be nice if a Military Base actually opened up the Military Base market (although I understand there's quite a few NPC colonies that also would be affected).

TrashMan

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2019, 03:27:14 AM »

I'll probably end up having to make a mod for this, but I had to ask...  Why is "Commerce" and "Military Base" considered "Industry"?

Do what I did and edits industries.csv. You turn commerce into a structure, because it's *** that you cannot trade on your own planet without gimping yourself, while the AI doesn't have that limitation.

I have no idea what Alex was thinking, that was just STUPID.
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thefinn

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2019, 06:24:33 AM »

Have only started playing in the past week...

Pretty much every mechanic which is outside of the actual combat is maddening.

Why is there only a single contract or none at all on each planet if I want to courier things around?
How come I have to pay for resources my own colony is producing, AFTER I have paid for the upkeep (wages?) of the industry that produced it?
Why can't I just trade like every other space game that doesn't require a 30% tax?
Who knows?
Lots of the trade and industry seems to be quite abstract and there's no REAL game there.

It's another awful case of "Just because you can program, doesn't mean you can create game mechanics"

I hope they are going to fix a lot of these absurd mechanics before a real release - but in today's gaming world - who knows?
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Yunru

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2019, 06:43:43 AM »

Why is there only a single contract or none at all on each planet if I want to courier things around?
Because why would "Oh ***, this needed to be there yesterday" contracts be regular or abundant?
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How come I have to pay for resources my own colony is producing, AFTER I have paid for the upkeep (wages?) of the industry that produced it?
Because the Open Market isn't yours. It's an Independent market hosted on your planet. If you don't want taxes, take from the resource stockpile (or for ships/weapons, order them and have them delivered to your storage).
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It's another awful case of "Just because you can program, doesn't mean you can create game mechanics"
And this is another perfect case of "Just because you can speak, doesn't mean you should."
What with the incorrect assumptions and all.

SCC

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Re: That's an industry?! And other weird colony limitations.
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2019, 06:57:50 AM »

Lots of the trade and industry seems to be quite abstract and there's no REAL game there.
Correct. The combat will always be the best thing in Starsector. Alex had a choice between a game focused on combat with good combat, or a game where you have good combat, but can spend a lot of time not doing it. And he chose to bet on the game's best feature. Another thing is that trading is boring, unless it's very good, and he doesn't have that much time to make it good.
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