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[axet]

What I'm saying is: I'd like to play fleet of different ships than fleet of one OP ship. Configuration is not a subject to discuss here, the subject is - can game push players to have better experience using different aspects of the game? At end of game, it is 20 paragon fleet. Constant auto bribes. And colonising everything using Alpha cores. Not mush I'd to say to have fun. I suggest Paragon 100DP can improve the situation. Simple, but that how I see it.

Additional suggestion, high price bounties can be contradictory: gain one fraction and reduce another.

[Grievous69]

What I'm saying is: I'd like to play fleet of different ships than fleet of one OP ship

Then do that? Jesus, you're acting like someone is forcing you to use Paragons.

I suggest Paragon 100DP can improve the situation. Simple, but that how I see it.

You're out of your mind, Paragon is barely worth 60 DP and yet you suggest such ridiculous numbers. Play the game some more and see for yourself.

[furl]

There are many ways to optimize fleets so that you get better performance than paragon spam.

I think it all comes to loadouts and playstyle. For instance, I absolutely love Odysseys (Autopulse + High Intensity) with many missiles; full Autopulse flux-efficient Paragons; some Conquests into the mix, optimized for anti-armor damage. Haven't built a full carrier fleet yet, but I'm sure it's a lot of fun (Herons can do 1 on 1 vs Dominators in simulation!). Some people prefer Onslaughts / Legions, nothing wrong with that, but I can't seem to make it work. I made a Legion that can kill Paragon 1 on 1, but it takes forever and it doesn't really shine in fleet setting.

The problem here IMO is that endgame becomes easy after some point, so new hard missions should be introduced, but it's up to Alex and modders. Because players can come up with really efficient fleets that can destroy almost infinite amount of reinforcements. Other idea is cheaper ships that can suicide ram into your expensive capitals and self-destruct, like Luddic Path, but worse.

[Sinosauropteryx]

What I'm saying is: I'd like to play fleet of different ships than fleet of one OP ship. ... I suggest Paragon 100DP can improve the situation.

You can edit the ship_data.csv file to make the Paragon that expensive, if you think it would make your play experience better.

Personally I've never had a problem not using Paragon.

[Bradley_]

I usually only have about 4 or 5 paragons in my fleet.

Ahahahhaha, 4 or 5 paragons, ahahahah

Therefore OP.

[Agile]

If ships were easier to make id probably make a mod based on the Junkers of HMI mod that are basically just suicide ships that Luddic Path use; low DP, high OP, with medium and large slots but the ships themselves have weak armor and hull.

The true swarm experience outside of fighter combat.

[Thaago]

People think Paragons are OP for the same reason they think carriers are OP: They are really easy. Easy to make 'ok' AI variants, easy to spam, easy to use as part of a fleet (put it in).

Paragons are quite strong - I'd rank that at 55 DP. But because of their low speed, they pretty much only have 1 strategy: grind the enemy down as an impenetrable, long range fortress. They are good at it. But as a ship for me to pilot, I prefer something with higher mobility so that I can use better tactics - there are a LOT of opportunities that happen in a battle that high mobility and burst firepower can exploit for a good pilot.

[Sinigr]

Hello!

I endup having 2.5M income from countless colonies and end game looks too simple. The best ship in the game is Paragon, I have fleet of them and it is not fun to play, no one can outstand just my first 3 paragons I deploy (180 dp points) and I lose no battle against pirates, or Remnant fleets.

If you read the description it's saying: "The pinnacle of the Domain's battleship designs, though perhaps less the result of military necessity and more of the ambitions of certain senior strategic staff of the Domain Navy with considerable backing from the Tri-Tachyon corporation, among other major contractors." Which is completely untrue. It is the best ship in the game, deployment 3 of them in a battle makes you always win.

I suggest to match a description and make it peace of luxury ship, let's make it have the best weapons, best look, higheght price to build, but useless in a battle. Let's make it 150 dp to deploy.

Just add officers like you see in my signiture and try to hunt 6+ big remnants fleets

[Sinigr]

And again, most of you are saying that AI paragon is worse than Onslaught or conquest. You do not understand how AI paragon should be loaded. Now, here you see how AI paragon should be loaded and it will smash all on it's way.

[Grievous69]

For a person that often claims others lack understanding, you're the one that missed the point completely. No one said AI Paragon will be worse than an AI Onslaught, there's a 20 bloody DP difference, it better be better. It's just the fact that it's not worth 60 DP when you're not piloting it. And the build you posted has even less range than standard ones so it'll get to shoot almost nothing unless the enemy drives to its face. Like the Paragon needs more survivability...

Also for the love of god stop double posting everywhere. For a forum that enforces its rules pretty often, I almost never see someone say something but people double/triple post regardless.

[Sinigr]

For a person that often claims others lack understanding, you're the one that misses the point almost always. No one said AI Paragon will be worse than an AI Onslaught, there's a 20 bloody DP difference, it better be better. It's just the fact that it's not worth 60 DP when you're not piloting it. And the build you posted has even less range than standard ones so it'll get to shoot almost nothing unless the enemy drives to its face. Like the Paragon needs more survivability...

Also for the love of god stop double posting everywhere. For a forum that enforces its rules pretty often, I almost never see someone say something but people double/triple post regardless.

Wow, wow, which luck of understanding if they say that, not me? And which rules, there is some information we do not see, because we do not read all topics, so i say againg to bring it to people. And you say "And the build you posted has even less range than standard ones so it'll get to shoot almost nothing unless the enemy drives to its face", first try it, than say something about it, how it was done by one man from that forum, it is your's luck of undertanding.

[Igncom1]

Hello!

I endup having 2.5M income from countless colonies and end game looks too simple. The best ship in the game is Paragon, I have fleet of them and it is not fun to play, no one can outstand just my first 3 paragons I deploy (180 dp points) and I lose no battle against pirates, or Remnant fleets.

If you read the description it's saying: "The pinnacle of the Domain's battleship designs, though perhaps less the result of military necessity and more of the ambitions of certain senior strategic staff of the Domain Navy with considerable backing from the Tri-Tachyon corporation, among other major contractors." Which is completely untrue. It is the best ship in the game, deployment 3 of them in a battle makes you always win.

I suggest to match a description and make it peace of luxury ship, let's make it have the best weapons, best look, higheght price to build, but useless in a battle. Let's make it 150 dp to deploy.

I dunno dude, that quote pretty much says all it needs to. High tech already has a super carrier and battlecruiser, so they didn't need a battleship but they designed one anyway for money and prestige.

As for it's effect, it does pretty damn good considering it has to use energy weapons (Jack of all trades, but master of none). Paired with it's fortress shield. and the usual high tech flux advantages. it's hard to knock back without some seriously dedicated anti-shield weapons or bombers. But like all battleships it still can't out range or deal with fighter/bomber swarms.

For it's logistical cost and deployment cost, it's fairly balanced as it is. It is a ship of battle, and battle is what it does best. Better then all the rest. For the heaviest of battles where you aren't utilising a longer ranged super carrier fleet, the paragon with out-slug anything in the game. For it's cost? Possibly, as it IS very expensive. For a player with their own personal interstellar empire, sure they are cheap, but that's the reward for building one.

Ultimately you don't need the paragon, mass carriers do just as well if not better at dealing heavy damage at long range. And pirates are low hanging fruit for targets.

[Vind]

Only thing why paragon is even remotely useful is because AI can survive in it. It will target fighters instead of ships and do stupid things but fortress shield can save the coward unlike in other ship. Also total unability of AI to gang up on one ship makes it much more stronger than this ship really is. Stacking 2 (3+ if you mod deployment points) just shows AI cant focus fire and push forward - no big revelation here. And this is why remotely hard battles will be impossible in starsector because AI cant do squat then outnumbered even in superior ship. Fighting vs superior force needs target recognition and priorities and AIs clearly lack both.

[Megas]

Sinigr's Paragon does not have significantly less range than non-beam Paragon (like four autopulse Paragon).  The loadout's purpose is to keep the AI alive, and it works.  It is even useful for the player to use.  Basically, Paragon grinds away with sustained dual plasma cannons (and kinetics), and has a ton of flux to absorb hits.  If player wants to, he can armor/hull tank hits on the nose and not lose weapons because there are none mounted on the nose!  I do not know if the loadout works if Paragon loses 40 or so capacitors for campaign hullmods (I like to put Augmented Engines and Efficiency Overhaul on all ships with burn 7 or less), I have not the chance to try that.  The loadout relies on Paragon outlasting the enemy with efficient flux use and huge flux reserves.

Is that loadout good enough to elevate AI Paragon to 60 DP?  I do not know.  Are there any other loadouts that make AI Paragon worth 60 DP?  (I tried several others, all with four heavy mounts used, and AI Paragon does not last much longer than other battleships against tough enemies, not long enough to be worth 20 more DP.)

If one undergunned loadout elevates AI Paragon to 60 DP weight, then why other ships that become very powerful with the right weapon combo perform as well as more expensive ships?

...unless the enemy drives to its face.

This is not a problem against the likes of Ordos fleet, at least until they start losing the flux war.  Still better than Paragon losing flux war due to too many guns and not enough flux when outnumbered or dueling a killer Radiant.

[sotanaht]

Sinigr's Paragon does not have significantly less range than non-beam Paragon (like four autopulse Paragon).  The loadout's purpose is to keep the AI alive, and it works.  It is even useful for the player to use.  Basically, Paragon grinds away with sustained dual plasma cannons (and kinetics), and has a ton of flux to absorb hits.  If player wants to, he can armor/hull tank hits on the nose and not lose weapons because there are none mounted on the nose!  I do not know if the loadout works if Paragon loses 40 or so capacitors for campaign hullmods (I like to put Augmented Engines and Efficiency Overhaul on all ships with burn 7 or less), I have not the chance to try that.  The loadout relies on Paragon outlasting the enemy with efficient flux use and huge flux reserves.

Is that loadout good enough to elevate AI Paragon to 60 DP?  I do not know.  Are there any other loadouts that make AI Paragon worth 60 DP?  (I tried several others, all with four heavy mounts used, and AI Paragon does not last much longer than other battleships against tough enemies, not long enough to be worth 20 more DP.)

If one undergunned loadout elevates AI Paragon to 60 DP weight, then why other ships that become very powerful with the right weapon combo perform as well as more expensive ships?

...unless the enemy drives to its face.

This is not a problem against the likes of Ordos fleet, at least until they start losing the flux war.  Still better than Paragon losing flux war due to too many guns and not enough flux when outnumbered or dueling a killer Radiant.

"Outlasting" doesn't work very well when you are facing overwhelming force.  You need burst in that case.  Kill something quickly using all your flux (or as much as you can/need to), active vent, and kill the next thing.  Especially for player ships, that's the best way to make use of something like a Paragon.  Concentrated burst firepower.  Sustain loses because the enemy has more total flux because they have more ships, in order to win you need to quickly eliminate their numbers advantage.

Don't get me wrong, I think the paragon is well worth its DP cost and then some, it's the strongest ship in the game and regardless of loadouts it's one of the very few ships the AI can use to both secure kills and survive.  I just don't approve of any sustain-based strategies in campaign.