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Author Topic: Vast Bulk For Everyone!  (Read 1343 times)

Digganob

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Vast Bulk For Everyone!
« on: September 01, 2019, 04:24:10 PM »

So I got this idea from someone else, but what if every ship, or, at least, ships beyond frigates, had the Vast Bulk hull mod (the one that massive ships like the Derelict Mothership have, that divides them into multiple parts) making what you target way more important. So, you could permanently disable a ship's ability to move freely, by destroying the engine area, but it'd still be able to shoot at you. This, I'd think, would make fights a lot more interesting, as well as realistic, as if you just shot up one part of a ship, it shouldn't make the entire thing explode, it would just ravage a single area, making it useless. There could also, maybe, be ships or weapons that can repair pieces of other ships, so that you could, for instance, repair a capital ship's engines so that you can retreat, or push an attack that was stopped by a flank by your enemy.

I just think this'd be a cool new mechanic that could really expand tactical options. I'm not a modder though, so I don't know what amount of work would be required to do this, and what it takes to make a ship with Vast Bulk, so I'm just suggesting this to any modders out there that also think it's a good idea.

On an almost unrelated note, are there any good guides out there that explain how to make new ships and, in particular, ships with Vast Bulk?
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Kenshkrix

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Re: Vast Bulk For Everyone!
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2019, 01:48:21 PM »

I don't recall any guides, but you can look at an existing example in Ship and Weapon mod's Cathedral.
It does utilize java code and also seems to make a lot of hull mods unusable, so you'd have to rewrite some hullmods. Then you'd have to cut up every single ship into component pieces and then link them all together again seamlessly.

Definitely possible, but I wouldn't want to be the one doing it. Especially not when the game is still in development.
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Digganob

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Re: Vast Bulk For Everyone!
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2019, 05:04:36 PM »

I don't recall any guides, but you can look at an existing example in Ship and Weapon mod's Cathedral.
It does utilize java code and also seems to make a lot of hull mods unusable, so you'd have to rewrite some hullmods. Then you'd have to cut up every single ship into component pieces and then link them all together again seamlessly.

Definitely possible, but I wouldn't want to be the one doing it. Especially not when the game is still in development.

I suppose it would be hard, but I definitely think at least a few ships with Vast Bulk would be super cool. Maybe like a few really big ships, or entirely new ones.
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Apogee_Freak

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Re: Vast Bulk For Everyone!
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2019, 09:59:49 PM »

This is an interesting idea, but I think the disabling mechanic (i.e. when you EMP a ship's weapons or engines) already covers this. It does most of the functionality you described, but the difference is that it is not permanent, or not permanent enough.

Instead of going through the fuss of reconstructing each and every ship with separate components, and possibly lose performance as a result, you could try either A) Have disabled ship weapons or engines stay disabled or B) Significantly increase the time it takes to repair a ship's engines or weapons. Option A sounds hardcore, and will definitely result in more ship losses. Option B sounds a bit more viable. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) this requires just a parametric change to whatever timer or variable that is responsible for how long ship systems stay disabled, since I'm aware there are hullmods and other stats that affect this timer by a percentage.

HOWEVER, this will make weapons that EMP very overpowered. Everyone will be flying around with EMP weapons, and if you get hit, it is game over. You will need to also do some balancing for said weapons, either by nerfing the amount of EMP damage they do, or lowering the chance to disable ship systems (idk how the EMP calculations work).

To do something closer to what you originally envisioned, you could expand the disabling mechanic to other weapons essentially making all weapons "EMP", or have the chance to disable whatever systems you hit. I think with the damage types, however, this will require significant framework, since I believe EMP damage is a separate thing by itself.

For your repairing idea, that will need to be new code. For instance, you'd need a script that checks for a ship within the vicinity of the second ship that has a disabled system. Then, you'd need a script that disables said ship from doing anything other than "repairing" the second ship (just hovering nearby, frozen). And finally, you need to finish the script with removing the disabled modifier on the second ship, and returning both ships to normal behavior.

Just some thoughts.
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Digganob

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Re: Vast Bulk For Everyone!
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2019, 06:07:24 PM »

This is an interesting idea, but I think the disabling mechanic (i.e. when you EMP a ship's weapons or engines) already covers this. It does most of the functionality you described, but the difference is that it is not permanent, or not permanent enough.

Instead of going through the fuss of reconstructing each and every ship with separate components, and possibly lose performance as a result, you could try either A) Have disabled ship weapons or engines stay disabled or B) Significantly increase the time it takes to repair a ship's engines or weapons. Option A sounds hardcore, and will definitely result in more ship losses. Option B sounds a bit more viable. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) this requires just a parametric change to whatever timer or variable that is responsible for how long ship systems stay disabled, since I'm aware there are hullmods and other stats that affect this timer by a percentage.

HOWEVER, this will make weapons that EMP very overpowered. Everyone will be flying around with EMP weapons, and if you get hit, it is game over. You will need to also do some balancing for said weapons, either by nerfing the amount of EMP damage they do, or lowering the chance to disable ship systems (idk how the EMP calculations work).

To do something closer to what you originally envisioned, you could expand the disabling mechanic to other weapons essentially making all weapons "EMP", or have the chance to disable whatever systems you hit. I think with the damage types, however, this will require significant framework, since I believe EMP damage is a separate thing by itself.

For your repairing idea, that will need to be new code. For instance, you'd need a script that checks for a ship within the vicinity of the second ship that has a disabled system. Then, you'd need a script that disables said ship from doing anything other than "repairing" the second ship (just hovering nearby, frozen). And finally, you need to finish the script with removing the disabled modifier on the second ship, and returning both ships to normal behavior.

Just some thoughts.

You make some good points, but I was thinking this would be more of a separate system, where EMP weapons are good at quickly weakening ships for a short time, with Vast Bulk this would weaken ships in one specific area, permanently. For instance if you destroyed the engine area the ship would be permanently floating around, but would still have all of its firepower. Basically it would make it so that far into a battle, not a whole lot of ships would be permanently destroyed, just crippled, either running away, or floating around uselessly. That's kind of the goal I'd say, for the battlefield to be covered in disabled ships, not a bunch of debris. Whereas with extended EMP repair times, this would just result in ships running away for longer and then coming back completely ok. Really, what I want is a slightly more realistic representation of damage, not just shooting a ship enough that it just blows up for no reason.
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