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[Lucky33]

You get all those slogfights because you do it wrong.

[Thaago]

While I prefer a very aggressive "kill or die" builds for my AI ships that helps speed up battles a lot, I also use interceptor carriers for anti-frigate work. Sometimes thats a spare Condor or two that hasn't exploded yet (I almost always have spare fleet slots), sometimes I've upgraded them to drovers, and one time I even used the slots on a brawler legion for the same role (4 spare talons will clean up frigates at the end of a battle, even if they aren't that strong and rack up lots of crew loss).

For Herons: strike craft or bust, simply because drovers are so good for interceptors. That may change next version, we'll see :p. Usually thats broadsword + 2 HE strike, or longbow + 2 HE strike.

[Plantissue]

You get all those slogfights because you do it wrong.

What will be your "right way then?

Anyways, I don't see anything wrong with using a Heron for fighters. It's ship system is afterall suitable for fighters, even if it isn't as effective as for bombers. Though since the Drover has the same PPT as a Heron, there isn't a particular reason to use the Heron over Drover in terms of PPT. When you fight against these 700 DP fleets, I find I have to put battle size (please stop calling it map size) to 500 and even then it's a race to not finish the battle before 720 or 600 PPT runs out.

[SCC]

will never use damage boost system which is the core of that poor ship.

Are we playing the same game? Herons have no issue with using Targeting Feed with interceptors or heavy fighters.

You get all those slogfights because you do it wrong.

If a strategy allows you(r fleet) to fight stronger enemies and win, than other builds, isn't it better? I avoid bounties after some point, so I haven't actually fought many capital spam fleets, but of those I did, frigates just don't matter past the initial clash, and since it's over so quickly, frigates become dead weight for the remainder of the fight (if not actually dead).

[Lucky33]

will never use damage boost system which is the core of that poor ship.

Are we playing the same game? Herons have no issue with using Targeting Feed with interceptors or heavy fighters.

You get all those slogfights because you do it wrong.

If a strategy allows you(r fleet) to fight stronger enemies and win, than other builds, isn't it better? I avoid bounties after some point, so I haven't actually fought many capital spam fleets, but of those I did, frigates just don't matter past the initial clash, and since it's over so quickly, frigates become dead weight for the remainder of the fight (if not actually dead).

Not an interceptors or a heavy fighters. The Spark. I think its something personal since under player control you can enable it so its not a wing whats bugged.

One strategy allows to win with smaller forces while other requires larger and with the same it leeds to a standstills. Which ones is better I wonder...

Exactly. You dont need frigates, apart from the player controlled Afflictors, late in the game. They are the worst cover possible: short range, scare nobody, die after little mistake and can force you to make one.

[Lucky33]

You get all those slogfights because you do it wrong.

What will be your "right way then?

Anyways, I don't see anything wrong with using a Heron for fighters. It's ship system is afterall suitable for fighters, even if it isn't as effective as for bombers. Though since the Drover has the same PPT as a Heron, there isn't a particular reason to use the Heron over Drover in terms of PPT. When you fight against these 700 DP fleets, I find I have to put battle size (please stop calling it map size) to 500 and even then it's a race to not finish the battle before 720 or 600 PPT runs out.

Oh, glad you asked! Its a very complicated and intricate strategy! When all three of my Battlegroup XIV cosplaying Onslaughts get into the battle map I press F. Again. And again. After that I push W, A, S, D, Q, E and LMB. Thats it. Works like charm, especially against high-tech fleets since most of their ships just hiding in another dimension and let me pass directly to Paragons/Astrals unopposed. Insteed they cheer me up from behind the scene. Such a heartwarming experience... Sadly, combat against any other fleets requires more LMBing.

There is a particular reason to use Herons over Drovers. Because Herons instakills ships. This way you dont need to stunlock them with Drovers. Honestly, in more refined societies its called torture.

Last thing. I know that you love me and ignore anybody but me. However, in a conversation with other people I will use any words they use and I want to use.

Bye!

[Plantissue]

That's not a serious response and a disrespectful one to Megas at that. Also I have no idea what you are on about with your last line. You can use whatever words you like, I cannot stop you.

[bobucles]

Get a room, love birds. Don't forget to bring adequate supplies.

There is some truth to Lucky33's riveting tale of heroism. The game AI starts breaking down against extremely powerful threats such as a dogpile of capital ships. It doesn't really know how to keep proper range, and it doesn't really know when to attack because it's trying to solve strategic choices on a per-ship basic. Once the individual ships get scared, you can cruise in guns blazing and not have much to worry about. I dunno if there's any real way to fix it, or if it's just a thing that happens with larger battle sizes and deadlier mod ships.

[Lucky33]

Get a room, love birds. Don't forget to bring adequate supplies.

There is some truth to Lucky33's riveting tale of heroism. The game AI starts breaking down against extremely powerful threats such as a dogpile of capital ships. It doesn't really know how to keep proper range, and it doesn't really know when to attack because it's trying to solve strategic choices on a per-ship basic. Once the individual ships get scared, you can cruise in guns blazing and not have much to worry about. I dunno if there's any real way to fix it, or if it's just a thing that happens with larger battle sizes and deadlier mod ships.

There are other factors too. Insteed of chasing those pesky fast frigates you can purposefully present them a nice target for flanking which they are unable to resist and will blindly close in for their inevitable demise. Secondly and its mostly about Remnants, since they like to zerg rush you anyway, their lesser ships can be used as an obstacle to the larger ships fire. Ive noticed that while faced with dense machine gun fire, poor Remnants dont know what to do. High flux, missiles dont work and there is nowhere to run since path is blocked by the Radiant. Combat turns into hilarious knife fight and firing pot shots through slits in the wall formed by the destroyer/cruiser hulls while some of them are still alive. More like WWI style trench warfare.

Reckless is fun.

[Thaago]

Regarding this post and a few others:

...

Lucky33, please don't mock others, it is against the forum rules. Disagreements happen, but lets keep everything respectful.

[Goumindong]

What is "in range"? I think it's in view/sensor range, but who knows!

Roughly, yeah.

Hasn't that come up before? IIRC, the problem is the player could move their ships to the far side of the enemy, then order them to retreat when they run out of PPT, and finally cancel it before they actually retreat. Result: extra combat time for free.

I'm not sure if it's come up before, but, yeah, actually thought about this I don't *think* that'd be practical - it feels too complicated to execute and too much risk for too little reward. And even then, it cost a command point, so it feels less like an exploit and more like a very situational tactic. Good to think that through, though - it's entirely possible I'm missing something.

Quick fix for this

Regular fighting retreat does not stop CR degredation

Direct retreat is renamed to “emergency retreat” and does stop CR degrading. But also prevents the ship from taking any orders in the future. Its off the map.

Such, if you want to retreat something that is out of CR, you can. You just cannot cheese it to get that ship back if the situation changes

Aside: something that would work well for that would be a redeploy system. After half a ships PPT has been expended while NOT in the fight it can rejoin the fight at its current CR.(basically PPT recovers at 2 to 1 while not in combat but CR does not) So if you have a lasher at 75% CR you can deploy it for 100 seconds, E retreat at 100 seconds. Then redeploy at 63% CR at “off edge of map +50 seconds”.

You could even have controlling certain objectives let you redeploy from that side of the map. (Taking all the deploy objectives could prevent the enemy from bringing in reinforcements)

This would make ships with lower PPT more viable in the lategame. It would make ships that had lower deploy costs better in prolonged fights. It would make controlling objectives potentially more important because the ability to deploy from different locations is strong. Etc etc.