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Author Topic: Trading and relationships  (Read 3832 times)

TrashMan

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Trading and relationships
« on: August 28, 2019, 01:17:26 PM »

Big trades with a faction= +1 relation
Trade with their enemy = -4 relation

WTF??? Who though his was good or sensible in any way? This is regular trade, not an embargo run.
It makes no sense for factions to become hostile for trading.
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Locklave

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2019, 07:52:18 PM »

Another point would be who even told the other faction about it. Are we to pretend spies are in every port and have nothing better to report then you doing mundane trades?
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kenwth81

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2019, 12:20:43 AM »

It is incredibly problematic in systems where factions are hostile to each other. Feel like a relic from the "Trading" era. You see weird phenomenon in Delivery missions where you gain relation and then lose another. The negative relation should have been removed or reduced. That gain to relation is minuscule. A massive annoyance when you need lots of supplies for your humongous fleet.
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Sarissofoi

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2019, 01:30:15 AM »

Black Market exist for a reason.

goduranus

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2019, 01:42:06 AM »

Is that something that really makes no sense? Or just something you find inconvenient? Back in WW2 Germany didn’t embargo the UK, but if some country or company or person trades with UK, you bet Germany would get *** at them and vice versa. How would they find out? Probably spy satellites and intelligence operatives. Trading with enemy penalty doesn’t happen unless your fleet is very significant, meaning such a large fleet gets noticed.

kenwth81

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2019, 02:17:39 AM »

Black Market exist for a reason.

Another weird phenomenon. There is no positive gain but you can still lose relation trading in black market. How do they even know?  ???

Is that something that really makes no sense? Or just something you find inconvenient? Back in WW2 Germany didn’t embargo the UK, but if some country or company or person trades with UK, you bet Germany would get *** at them and vice versa. How would they find out? Probably spy satellites and intelligence operatives. Trading with enemy penalty doesn’t happen unless your fleet is very significant, meaning such a large fleet gets noticed.

Not really. What countries at war would be unhappy with is more specific like sales of weapons and raw materials for making them. Not everything would get blocked in an embargo. It could be just more convenient and practical to block everything if you started blocking trade.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 02:48:49 AM by kenwth81 »
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TrashMan

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2019, 03:06:18 AM »

Is that something that really makes no sense? Or just something you find inconvenient? Back in WW2 Germany didn’t embargo the UK, but if some country or company or person trades with UK, you bet Germany would get *** at them and vice versa. How would they find out? Probably spy satellites and intelligence operatives. Trading with enemy penalty doesn’t happen unless your fleet is very significant, meaning such a large fleet gets noticed.

There are thousand upon thousands of small traders and companies. A country that goes hostile against them for doing every day trade is nothing but *** and evil.
If I buy fuel and supplies for my fleet at planet belonging to faction X (that is closest after a big exploration run. I'm running on fumes, can't really get anywhere else) then faction Y gets uppity? What am I supposed to do? Let my crew starve?

The penalty needs to get removed, ASAP. I'd do it myself if I knew how.
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goduranus

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2019, 03:58:08 AM »

Yeah, there's tens of thousands of cargo ships ploughing the trade lanes here on earth, one docks in Iran to pick up some oil, gets confiscated...
Factions in Starsector are probably nothing but pure evil, just like factions here on earth.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 04:21:43 AM by goduranus »
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Plantissue

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2019, 02:11:58 PM »

In real life embargoes are basically a war in all but name. They are enforced by might localised or otherwise.

Factions in Starsector are carefully written to appear morally ambiguous. Their actions not so much. Anyways for all we know, the Luddic Path might be right all along.
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TrashMan

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2019, 02:28:15 PM »

Yeah, there's tens of thousands of cargo ships ploughing the trade lanes here on earth, one docks in Iran to pick up some oil, gets confiscated...
Factions in Starsector are probably nothing but pure evil, just like factions here on earth.

There are thousands of ship and traders doing buissness with Iran every day.
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Locklave

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2019, 08:51:03 PM »

Yeah, there's tens of thousands of cargo ships ploughing the trade lanes here on earth, one docks in Iran to pick up some oil, gets confiscated...
Factions in Starsector are probably nothing but pure evil, just like factions here on earth.

3 reasons why even if they were evil they wouldn't care.

1. These aren't *** ant tiny countries these are governments spanning multiple star systems with hundreds of major trades happening daily. They are busy.

2. Major first world powers don't lose control of a city for 1+ month(s) because pirates show up on mass randomly, these governments lose control of systems. They are fighting, they are busy.

3. These major powers are actively at war with other major powers and the Pirates are a major threat at all times, the LP are just annoying but they take up time.  They are fighting, they are hunting terrorist, they are busy.

Pirates just destroyed a trade convoy and a planet has food shortages, or production slams to a halt. Tell me who gives a crap that about what 1 random spacer sold at a planet that isn't your problem. Who is the guy with the free time to tell everyone in the faction that you are a *** and better yet who cared if you were?
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Pappus

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2019, 02:03:54 AM »

Is that something that really makes no sense? Or just something you find inconvenient? Back in WW2 Germany didn’t embargo the UK, but if some country or company or person trades with UK, you bet Germany would get *** at them and vice versa. How would they find out? Probably spy satellites and intelligence operatives. Trading with enemy penalty doesn’t happen unless your fleet is very significant, meaning such a large fleet gets noticed.

Hitler & His Satellites :D

Hahaha man that cracked me up
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Histidine

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2019, 04:56:14 AM »

Yeah, there's tens of thousands of cargo ships ploughing the trade lanes here on earth, one docks in Iran to pick up some oil, gets confiscated...
Factions in Starsector are probably nothing but pure evil, just like factions here on earth.

3 reasons why even if they were evil they wouldn't care.

1. These aren't *** ant tiny countries these are governments spanning multiple star systems with hundreds of major trades happening daily. They are busy.

2. Major first world powers don't lose control of a city for 1+ month(s) because pirates show up on mass randomly, these governments lose control of systems. They are fighting, they are busy.

3. These major powers are actively at war with other major powers and the Pirates are a major threat at all times, the LP are just annoying but they take up time.  They are fighting, they are hunting terrorist, they are busy.

Pirates just destroyed a trade convoy and a planet has food shortages, or production slams to a halt. Tell me who gives a crap that about what 1 random spacer sold at a planet that isn't your problem. Who is the guy with the free time to tell everyone in the faction that you are a *** and better yet who cared if you were?
Without attempting to decide whether the rep penalty is excessive: "factions have big enemies so they shouldn't care about someone having dealings with and possibly supplying those very enemies" and "factions can't afford having a few informants and pencil-pushers to keep track of activity at hostile ports in contested systems" are pretty strange takes.

(I'd further say that any argument that player is a random person factions should not care about is an argument against having any concept of reputation with factions at all, other than a binary hostile/non-hostile state)
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Agile

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2019, 06:45:32 AM »

These rep losses wouldn't be so bad if there was an actual benefit to reputation.

Right now, unless your commissioned, rep doesn't matter THAT much. Unless you are early game, rep starts to fall off hard due to being able to make lots of money and buy good ships off the black market. Ive even had a playthrough where I went Luddic Path (so I was inhospitable with everyone but pirates) and made 5 million credits without a single problem, and managed to make my own faction and capitals and essentially win the game despite being hostile to everyone but my own faction.

There needs to be more mid to late game applications to reputation. Maybe "spending" your reputation on swaying a big time official to covertly "donate" a few warships to your cause, maybe blackmailing a high level / mid level official to send a war fleet to wipe out an enemy of yours, etc.
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Megas

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Re: Trading and relationships
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2019, 07:08:42 AM »

I am annoyed that major factions send more warships against me than they do against pirates, pathers, and their official major enemies.  Hegemony and Church do not even send expeditions against the Free Ports in Askonia, which is controlled by a faction much like the player's.  Only the player fights ten capital spam assaults.  At best, other factions fight the equivalent of 200k bounties.  No wonder why pirates can raid successfully over and over again, and worlds decivilize if player does nothing.

The factions treat the player as an existential threat, yet they do not have the guts to declare war.  Given the abuse they inflict on the player, I would not bat an eye at sat bombing every last world to make them stop.  Only non-stop pirate activity prevents me from annihilating all of core, all because I get tired of constant expeditions.

As for reputation, all that matters is keeping it above hostile for maximum accessibility, or maybe suspicious so you can dock with transponder.
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