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Author Topic: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.11-rc2  (Read 327512 times)

MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #525 on: June 30, 2017, 06:46:39 PM »

Small note Tyrlobot.

Nomads has some name collisions with stuff.

Trylobot

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #526 on: June 30, 2017, 09:38:17 PM »

Nomads has some name collisions with stuff.

Thanks for the tip. I remember the last time I had a naming conflict. I made some pretty major changes to the themes and lore of my weapons. I'm not sure I'm so keen on a repeat.

If you can tell me what it conflicts with in particular, maybe we can work something out, but no guarantees.
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xenoargh

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #527 on: June 30, 2017, 09:50:31 PM »

Who cares anyhow, so long as it's not internal ids?
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #528 on: June 30, 2017, 09:59:44 PM »

Scarab is a vanilla ship.
Scorpion is a BRDY ship.

Might be others as well, but this is why we have this.
http://fractalsoftworks.com/forum/index.php?topic=9550.0

Xeno... Really? Personally, I find it pretty wrong to have name collisions, especially with vanilla. Is confusing, and immersion breaking too. But the confusion it can cause is the real problem.


Edit: Some of the names of things on your ToDo list on your Github also collide with stuff.

« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 10:05:02 PM by MesoTroniK »
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Trylobot

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #529 on: June 30, 2017, 10:56:40 PM »

Politely, I want to point out a few things.

Scarab is a vanilla ship.
  • The Vanilla Scarab was added in Starsector 0.7.2a, released February 26, 2016, by Alex
  • The Nomad Scarab was added in The Nomads (original version) [Starfarer 0.34a] released around June 8, 2011 (4+ years earlier)

Scorpion is a BRDY ship.
  • The BRDY Scorpion was added in Blackrock Drive Yards ver. 0.6.5 [Starsector ver. 0.6.2a] released May 12th, 2014, by Cycerin
  • The Nomad Scorpion was added in The Nomads ver. 0.6 [Starfarer ver. 0.51a] released March 27th, 2012 (2+ years earlier)


In both cases, my ships predated. In the case of Vanilla, I'd be willing to stand aside, simply given the nature of the relationship between any game and its mods, where such mods are not total conversions but rather content-additive; and I'll consider changing the name of the Scarab for that reason.

In the case of Cycerin's BRDY mod, even considering that he's a friend and has helped me personally with my modding work, I would appeal to his sense of pride in mod-authorship to recognize my valid claim on the name Scorpion, and let me continue to use it while he renames his ship.

The list you link to doesn't seem aware that I exist, but that's hardly on me; at the time of naming, that list didn't exist yet, so I don't think it's fair to reference it as a reason why I should change anything.
  • I see that Mantis is already an established BRDY frigate, so I will avoid creating a new Mantis.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 11:17:00 PM by Trylobot »
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #530 on: June 30, 2017, 11:51:34 PM »

Mosquito is a BRDY bomber.

Also, I want to politely point out. That pretty much everyone thought the Nomads would *never* be updated, and your presence was sporadic at best. So, some folks seem to have picked names you did in the far past. Anyways, I am not defending or attacking anyone, as it doesn't directly concern me. I am very careful with my own naming conventions.

Trylobot

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #531 on: June 30, 2017, 11:54:10 PM »

pretty much everyone thought the Nomads would *never* be updated, and your presence was sporadic at best.
It's lovely to think I was so quickly forgotten.

Like I said, I'll get out of Vanilla's way, and I won't create new conflicts, .. but if I established a name first, then I don't see the problem with keeping it.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 11:59:44 PM by Trylobot »
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Midnight Kitsune

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #532 on: July 01, 2017, 12:01:45 AM »

pretty much everyone thought the Nomads would *never* be updated, and your presence was sporadic at best.
It's lovely to think I was so quickly forgotten.
I would think that 3 to 3.5 years would be pretty long to many, especially in the gaming scene. And that was compounded by your lack of presence, minus the last few weeks
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Trylobot

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #533 on: July 01, 2017, 12:08:45 AM »

I would think that 3 to 3.5 years would be pretty long to many, especially in the gaming scene. And that was compounded by your lack of presence, minus the last few weeks

Politely, I disagree. I've made my position known, and I've identified the few outstanding conflicts in the spreadsheet. Doesn't appear too bad, really. The rest is between Cycerin and I.

P.S.: I've always placed this license on my work: and I take it to heart. All I ask for is correct attribution; there is no statue of limitations on that, because it is not a contract, it is a license. On top of that, global uniqueness of names is never a guarantee, it is a voluntary courtesy. And personally, I don't care if other people use the same ship names in their mods. I built The Nomads to function in an environment of Vanilla + Nomads. I have never guaranteed compatibility or global uniqueness, but at the same time I have never told other modders how to operate.

P.P.S.: Scarab is also in use by BRDY. That was a 3-way conflict.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 12:37:59 AM by Trylobot »
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MesoTroniK

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.0
« Reply #534 on: July 01, 2017, 01:12:46 AM »

P.P.S.: Scarab is also in use by BRDY. That was a 3-way conflict.

That is not the case, it was renamed when the Scarab frigate was added to vanilla.

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Trylobot

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.1
« Reply #535 on: July 01, 2017, 01:22:50 AM »

Sure, but even so - when it was added, there was already a Scarab. Mine.
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Tartiflette

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.1
« Reply #536 on: July 01, 2017, 01:28:07 AM »

Like I said, I'll get out of Vanilla's way, and I won't create new conflicts, .. but if I established a name first, then I don't see the problem with keeping it.

Sure, but even so - when it was added, there was already a Scarab. Mine.

Trylo, are you sure this is a fight you want to pick? Randomly coming back after 3+ years of absence, act like nothing changed and expecting everyone to bow and act in deference?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 11:01:07 AM by Tartiflette »
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Trylobot

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.1
« Reply #537 on: July 01, 2017, 01:32:18 AM »

Who's picking fights? Meso came onto my thread, notified me of a conflict. I changed some future plans, squared with vanilla, and as far as I'm concerned, everything is fine. That's the end of the conversation.

If you're reading tone, you're reading too deep. If you resent me taking a break, that's on you. If you want to fight with me, let's do it in private.
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Spoorthuzad

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.1
« Reply #538 on: July 01, 2017, 02:45:58 AM »

Now that we are on the topic of names. Tarantula has also been taken. Which was added in one of the first releases of my mod.

Not sure how this would cause conflicts though... other then some confusion. Shouldn't the prefix ("flx" in my case) that most mods use in their filenaming prevent compatibility issues.
If it doesn't cause issues I would have no problem with it.

edit: Welcome back btw. This mod always had a unique look to it that I always liked :)

Az the Squishy

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Re: [0.8.1a] The Nomads, v1.4.1
« Reply #539 on: July 01, 2017, 04:01:11 AM »

Yes, but, a way of thinking about it is a similar way to how Vanilla sprites are handled now. if you look at certain buffalos you'll find they have the same name and different sprites. So, with mods, it also gets the same effect.

If a player has seen one buffalo they may've seen all the buffalos, then, they see a ship that ISN"T a bufflao as they know it to be and now have to hunt through the codex to find the buffalo... I think that's the situation that most people are pointing towards in some fashion or another. it's a matter of not filling up the Codex with Duplicates if it can be helped. Really, I think a few repeats are fine (it's to be expected at some point. I mean how many mustangs do you see on the street?) So, the same can be said of ships to a degree, but, for the sake of unique entry and clarity  even then they have the model or call it "2013 mustang" or something.

As far as the mod goes, I'm happy to see you back in action. :) even if it's not under the best of circumstance with the whole naming tid-bit.
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