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Author Topic: Overrated (overpriced) ships  (Read 28802 times)

Thaago

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #255 on: September 28, 2019, 11:37:30 AM »

ECCM also reduces enemy ECM bonuses right? So that's another nice little bonus from using them!

Iirc, it halves the penalty from dominant enemy ECM for that one ship. That is actually pretty nice in the early stage of battle when the enemy has tons of numbers. Benefit most noticeable on... Dominators maybe? EMR + ECCM + 3 medium missiles is doable with its OP if using a slightly lighter gun load, triple harpoons is quite deadly, and as a slow ship it really needs gun range.
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Plantissue

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #256 on: September 29, 2019, 07:49:34 AM »

Having played around a bit with the Prometheus MKII, it's hard to quantify how much DP it is worth. Fighter bay makes it very hard to put a DP value on Prometheus MKII. Fighter bays which can be a large part of fluxless damage. There is nothing around its DP other than the Aurora and Doom both of which have problem in testing. It's certainly better than the Dominator, which is both outranges due to being a Capital, and outflux due to being limited to 50 OP instead of 30 OP. It is certainly worse than the Conquest or Onslaught. Though piloted with good weaponry and with the more OP skill, it can destroy both.

Mountwise it is quite similar to the Dominator. Like the Dominator, it either uses its two medium mounts for normal weapons or for flak which makes it lose a lot of potential firepower. The pather version is equipped with heavy Autocannons it seems. For fleet actions the large mounts covering a 135 degree arc is a definate positive over the Dominator. Inner large turrets are less likely to be disabled but frontal medium turrets very likely to get disabled. Testing under standard variant as a likely opponent ship shows that its vulvan turret arcs are hilariously underprotected from the front.

Dominator seems a bit useless now that Atlas MKII and Prometheus MKII exists. Both are more DP efficient but I suppose are logistically worse than Dominator. Perhaps the Dominator can do with its fixed hardpoint mounts to being as wide as the Apogee's and Hammerhead.

Prometheus MKII lower right small turret has less angle coverage despite being identical to the left.

There's something wrong with the Codex. I cannot find the 3rd medium ballistic or the 9th small ballistic mounts. I count 2 medium and 8 small mounts. They are missing on the model or the Codex is wrong.

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SCC

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #257 on: September 29, 2019, 08:15:19 AM »

Due to a bug, some weapon mounts were duplicated. You can observe it on Prometheus Mk II by equipping any medium ballistic weapon, then holding shift.
While Prometheus Mk II is too rare to be a Dominator substitute, Atlas Mk II isn't. Dominator has much better defences, but Atlas Mk II has appreciably more firepower and more range than Dominator.

Igncom1

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #258 on: September 29, 2019, 08:27:03 AM »

I find that their flux stats and general defences make them far too vulnerable to be used in any kind of serious battle.

A dominator cat at least adsorb anything but reaper torpedoes pretty easily, where as an atlas MKII tends to die to anything that bypasses the shield.
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Sunders are the best ship in the game.

goduranus

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #259 on: September 29, 2019, 08:50:49 AM »

You guy got any good loadout for Colossus Mk2 and Mk3? Atlas and Prometheus conversions might not be top notch, but  combat Colossus are downright terrible. Especially the Mk3, which is basically a frigate but easier to hit.

Agile

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #260 on: September 29, 2019, 09:28:47 AM »

I thought MK III is the premier choice for early carrier support, since they get 3 fighter bays, no?

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goduranus

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #261 on: September 29, 2019, 09:34:02 AM »

I thought MK III is the premier choice for early carrier support, since they get 3 fighter bays, no?


Did I get the names wrong? I meant the worst Colossus is the LP one with SO. The carrier one has only 2 bays, imo not as good as the condor, but maybe it can work with Talons, railguns and ITU?

Agile

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #262 on: September 29, 2019, 09:49:14 AM »

I thought MK III is the premier choice for early carrier support, since they get 3 fighter bays, no?


Did I get the names wrong? I meant the worst Colossus is the LP one with SO. The carrier one has only 2 bays, imo not as good as the condor, but maybe it can work with Talons, railguns and ITU?

Oh, the SO LP one? Never used that one but id imagine the best way to use it is with hammers and just face slamming into your opponents till you explode onto them.

Never seen a good use for them tbh.

There is four types of colosseus that Pirates can field; the MK II, with two fighter bays, the MK III, which three fighter bays, and the BaTTLEgROUP FouRTEENTH (the literal conversion of it, no joke) which has Very Converted Bays and 3 fighter bays (very good early game if you can fight it, usually in hegemony markets in black market).

If your talking about the LP SO Colosseus, I have 0 clue on how to make it good cause its ... just bad in general.
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Goumindong

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #263 on: September 29, 2019, 11:51:26 AM »

The best part about the LP colosus is that if you fire the hammer point blank you get 5 explosions against your opponents armor
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Plantissue

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #264 on: September 30, 2019, 04:18:25 AM »

What are you people talking about? There is the Colossus MkII which has Safety Overides and built in Hammer Barrage and the Colossus MkIII which has 2 fighter bays. The MkII does not have any fighter bays and the MkIII does not have 3 fighter bays. There aren't any other variants.

Colossus MK II is only good for doing a somewhat prolonged burst damage with its built in Hammer Barrage which can catch out some ships. Once the ammo runs out in about 17 seconds, the MKII is practically useless. The Pathers equip them with so much weaponry that they can't possible fire them all. Their PD don't cover the front or rear, only the sides, though a human player can try to cover the front if they really want to. There aren't any range 450 small mounts either. I had some success with frontal Railgun, Light Mortar and Vulcan Cannons, thought it's doubtful you would want to use precious railguns on such a ship. Trying machine guns and light mortar practically makes the ship like one big bomb. In practice, you will never really want to buy this ship for its cost, or have the opportunity to recover it.

Colossus MK III is probably the cheapest fighterbay per DP, though if you are equiping it with fighters, since the drover can give extra fighters, it's not as good as it seems. It actually has a reasonably good amount of OP for it's DP so you can give it two bombers if you want to. Since it has similar stats to the MKII, in theory you can fight with it, but it's best to regard it as a massive Condor with no ability to defend its own engine. I think the Condor needs some attention to make it a ship people would want to use.

I had reasonable good success with Atlas MK II, even killing Capitals when supported. For its DP it can creat a nice anti frigate zone around itself. I did a recover only, bounty only run and recoving Atlas MKII was the only practical way to get ships good enough to face Atlas MKII themselves. Like the Colosuss MKII, it does prolonged burst damage, but can keep doing so without running out. I think I gave them Expanded Missile racks since much of their firepower is in their large missile mounts and only filled for the small mounts, the 2 frontmost and 2 rearmost mounts and left the mediums empty. The only problem with Atlas MKII compared with the Dominator is that it is bad logistically.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 04:35:10 AM by Plantissue »
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Megas

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #265 on: September 30, 2019, 04:57:50 AM »

I treat Colossus 3 as poor-man's Valkyrie.  Bring it for the Ground Support Package hullmod, which is nice for raiding markets with about 1000 defense or less (there are plenty such targets).  I would not rely on it for fighting.
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SCC

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #266 on: September 30, 2019, 05:28:48 AM »

Colossus Mk XIV is from Vayra's ship pack.

Agile

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #267 on: September 30, 2019, 03:42:09 PM »

Colossus Mk XIV is from Vayra's ship pack.

Oh my bad, I play mainly with mods, so I forgot about that.

Thanks.
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goduranus

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #268 on: October 01, 2019, 06:01:30 AM »

Aha! I found out how to use Pilums, and Condors for that matter. They need Thunders. The Thunders disable the engines so the enemies cannot dodge, overload their shields so they can't shield tank, and disable the PD so Pilums don't get shot down. It overcomes all of Pilums' weaknesses, and is the most effective way to use Pilums and Condors yet.

sotanaht

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Re: Overrated (overpriced) ships
« Reply #269 on: October 01, 2019, 06:57:02 AM »

Aha! I found out how to use Pilums, and Condors for that matter. They need Thunders. The Thunders disable the engines so the enemies cannot dodge, overload their shields so they can't shield tank, and disable the PD so Pilums don't get shot down. It overcomes all of Pilums' weaknesses, and is the most effective way to use Pilums and Condors yet.
So in other words, just use something else to do everything and forget about the pilums.
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