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Starsector 0.97a is out! (02/02/24); New blog post: Simulator Enhancements (03/13/24)

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Author Topic: [0.9.1a] 'Junk Pirates' 3.5.3 (including ASP & P.A.C.K.)  (Read 596983 times)

Ghoti

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #150 on: February 19, 2012, 01:00:43 PM »

has anyone mentioned the current balance with the scatter PD's and cutlass?

About the cutlass:
Having a high flux for a high damage gun doesn't balance it out, because you essentially get more for your hardpoint. Also, in some cases more flux is what you want.

And the scatter PD's:
Let's just say the standard sickle frigate is the most dangerous frigate in the game in the hands of a player. Those scatters do almost as much damage as a cutlass, and they don't cost the flux, and they're energy weapons so they work on everything, and they're point defense. Do these things Julian fries as well?

The design of the ships are cool, REALLY cool (except the mothership, that thing is a teal and red hue of strange.), but there is a tendency with mod makers to make their additions uniquely powerful, so that they stand out. Some of these ships and weapons really stand out.
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SgtAlex86

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #151 on: February 19, 2012, 01:14:09 PM »

has anyone mentioned the current balance with the scatter PD's and cutlass?

About the cutlass:
Having a high flux for a high damage gun doesn't balance it out, because you essentially get more for your hardpoint. Also, in some cases more flux is what you want.

And the scatter PD's:
Let's just say the standard sickle frigate is the most dangerous frigate in the game in the hands of a player. Those scatters do almost as much damage as a cutlass, and they don't cost the flux, and they're energy weapons so they work on everything, and they're point defense. Do these things Julian fries as well?

The design of the ships are cool, REALLY cool (except the mothership, that thing is a teal and red hue of strange.), but there is a tendency with mod makers to make their additions uniquely powerful, so that they stand out. Some of these ships and weapons really stand out.
cutlass looses range compared to pulse lazer... dont know bout scatter pd havnt had time to play with it yet  :-\
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mendonca

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #152 on: February 19, 2012, 01:55:18 PM »

has anyone mentioned the current balance with the scatter PD's and cutlass?

About the cutlass:
Having a high flux for a high damage gun doesn't balance it out, because you essentially get more for your hardpoint. Also, in some cases more flux is what you want.

And the scatter PD's:
Let's just say the standard sickle frigate is the most dangerous frigate in the game in the hands of a player. Those scatters do almost as much damage as a cutlass, and they don't cost the flux, and they're energy weapons so they work on everything, and they're point defense. Do these things Julian fries as well?

Both weapons have fluttered between being very powerful and less powerful, with flux costs flickering about just as much, since I starting pratting about with them. The cutlass is supposed to be offset by the range penalty against the pulse laser, at just under 2/3rd, but yeah, it is pretty powerful. But then, so is the pulse. The larger flux reserves in this version against the last (0.5a vs. 0.35a) probably count against any previous balancing, making the thing relatively more powerful, because these things used to cut out quite quickly in the Sickle (not so much anymore, I suppose ...)

In terms of the scatterpd, it ended up where it is, because - if it wasn't as powerful - it would never knock a missile out of the sky out of space due to it's terrible accuracy. I guess it ended up, almost accidentally, being an awesome close assault weapon, and I kind of hoped it would be a bit more costly to use it in the campaign, where getting up close and personal to some ships (enforcer, dominator etc.) is going to cost you dearly. Not so dangerous against smaller ships, though, I guess...

The design of the ships are cool, REALLY cool (except the mothership, that thing is a teal and red hue of strange.), but there is a tendency with mod makers to make their additions uniquely powerful, so that they stand out. Some of these ships and weapons really stand out.
Ha ha! Thanks, man, and thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. It's really cool to hear people are having a good play around!  :D


@Alendor: When I tried to run both together, it seemed to use my mod in preference to Paul's mod in terms of the Sectorgen file. I think there's a little bug in how it's working at the minute, such that mods can't play on top of each other in the campaign (unless I did it wrong) due to it picking a single Sectorgen to use to generate the system (presumably the first directory alphabetically, or something).
« Last Edit: February 19, 2012, 01:59:25 PM by mendonca »
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Alex

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #153 on: February 19, 2012, 02:06:24 PM »

I think there's a little bug in how it's working at the minute, such that mods can't play on top of each other in the campaign (unless I did it wrong) due to it picking a single Sectorgen to use to generate the system (presumably the first directory alphabetically, or something).

You can actually use multiple SectorGen-type classes - need to add them to "data/world/generators.csv". Right now, though, there's a bug w/ StarSystemAPI.getEntityByName, so you can't get SectorEntityTokens for stuff created by another generator. This is fixed in the next version, though.

Ultimately, the default SectorGen is not supposed to be touched by mods unless it's a total conversion.
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Paul

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #154 on: February 19, 2012, 02:53:39 PM »

Wouldn't that still keep multiple mods from working together due to needing different generators.csv, or does the game automatically add together generators.csv from multiple mods selected?
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Alex

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #155 on: February 19, 2012, 03:04:40 PM »

Wouldn't that still keep multiple mods from working together due to needing different generators.csv, or does the game automatically add together generators.csv from multiple mods selected?

Yeah, the game merges a few different type of files from different mods - ship_data.csv, weapon_data.csv, missions.csv, planets.json, etc.

That's why, for example, if you're adding a new ship or weapon in a mod, your mod's ship_data and weapon_data just need to contain the new stuff, and as long as there are no id clashes, it'll coexist peacefully with other mods. Incidentally, that's why it's recommended to prepend a unique mod-specific id to ship and weapon ids, and anything else similar.

Edit: sounds.json is another important one where it does that.
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Paul

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #156 on: February 20, 2012, 09:17:49 AM »

Ah, cool. Thought it might, but wasn't sure.
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mendonca

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #157 on: February 21, 2012, 12:07:25 AM »

Just a quick note to say I've updated the link to 1.01.

GET IT HERE

-Fixed up OP counts against variants (thanks to catattack998 for spelling out the value of the devmode for that!)
-buffed the Langoustine.
-Also hullmods now properly showing up for some of the ships where I had left the designation as mods:[] rather than changing to hullMods:[].
-Few more tweaks all round.

Nothing major, but it should be a bit more consistent and correct now.
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arcibalde

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #158 on: February 21, 2012, 12:20:10 AM »

Niceeee  8)  hey! And what about big nasty cap ship for JT's?
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Creator of:
Relics MOD - vanilla balanced - Campaign integrated
Vanilla addon MOD - vanilla balanced - Campaign integrated
Project ONI MOD - mission only

mendonca

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #159 on: February 21, 2012, 01:02:51 AM »

Niceeee  8)  hey! And what about big nasty cap ship for JT's?

What about it, do you know something I don't ?  ;D

In all honesty I can't see me working on it any time soon ... there are just so many other things to do that don't involve sitting in front of the tablet for 6 or 7 hours dreaming up and detailing a huge new ship ... I'll keep it in mind though, for the future :)
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Arghy

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #160 on: February 22, 2012, 10:03:01 AM »

The sickle frigate is goddamn amazing and the flying cross one is also above average in survivability for what its fielding. I had 3 wolf frigates and 3 lashers and i would lose them all the time as i had to drop fleet size for speed but i now sold the 3 wolves and and keep the lashers as fodder because i watched a single sickle and hammer frigate actually hold their own against destroyers and cruisers.

I watched a single sickle dance with 2 pirate destroyers, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser and live. The lasher and wolf frigates seem to be crewed by idiots who like to bring their ship into a cross fire and overload their shields by ramming carriers while fighters and bombers shoot their butts. I watched a hammer frigate with its woefully inadequate half shield survive a fight with multiple LRM streams and fighters which goddamn amazed me.

I also love the scatter PD because its RoF and cone of fire is great for wiping out large swathes of missiles that get to close--i check the station continually trying to find more and i buy every single one i can. Its short range is amazing because it doesnt waste shots or get distracted and its great for overloading enemy shields that get to close.
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Paul

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #161 on: February 22, 2012, 01:12:32 PM »

You have an unnecessary generators.csv in your mod. (junkpirates\data\world). Having that in there makes it conflict with the base one and screws something up, making it conflict with other mods.

So in short, next version you release delete that generators.csv file so your mod is compatible with mine and others :)

Until then if anyone wants to get this one working with my new version of TT station, you no longer need the files I posted previously - all you need is to delete that generators.csv file in the junk pirates mod and you're good to go.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 01:15:20 PM by Paul »
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mendonca

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #162 on: February 22, 2012, 01:31:33 PM »

Ah okay. Thanks!

I'll do that.
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Ghoti

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #163 on: February 23, 2012, 07:11:25 PM »

Yah I noticed that scatter PD's gained a rather large flux cost with them now, it still didn't stop the standard sickle from being a devastating close range assault frigate. I just destroyed a battlecruiser with one. I can outpower it's shield.

High flux will never offset weapon damage, because you get more for your hardpoint.

There's also another thing. People compared the cutlass with the pulse laser, but there's a destroyer with a forward battery of 3 pulse lasers, it's not THAT effective (pretty effective though). How can the cutlas be so devastating in comparison?

I've sussed it. Two factors:
1. The cutlas rotates fast, shoots fast, it's spread makes it effective at hitting anything. Huge utility.
2. The cutlas has about equal flux to damage ratio. This is a BIG point, it means if you get into a shooting war, firing a cutlas will always put you ahead. It get's worse as your flux rises and the thing does more damage.

The scatter PD has taken a step towards reasonable, it's still terrifying, but some close assault weapons are that good (though they DO use ammo)
The cutlas still kinda crazy though.

again, my opinion, but:
  • clam needs buff. It's kind of hilarious as it is.
  • hammer is basically perfect.  
  • carrier is perfect (i think)
  • some sickle variants are horrifyingly deadly.
  • langoustine costs too little to field. Larger ships are expensive to field, not because of their fleet cost, but because of their speed. They take a long time to really make a difference. Langoustine gets to the field fast, and changes things faster.
  • the cruisers seem reasonable.
  • dugong is fast

I could be wrong. *edit. Cutlas is a MEDIUM mount
Compare and contrast: Mining Blaster.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2012, 07:18:16 PM by Ghoti »
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Anysy

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Re: 'Junk Pirates' - New Ships and Missions mod for 0.5a
« Reply #164 on: February 23, 2012, 07:12:34 PM »

This seems like a silly question, but is there a reason most of these ships have something silly like .3flux/damage shield ratios?
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